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2018/09/17 13:42:51
Subject: Are Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs worthwhile on Termagants?
My gut says no. They are best used as cheap, cheap bodies.
4 points a model is a sweet deal.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/09/17 13:51:54
Subject: Are Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs worthwhile on Termagants?
Nah - they are really only worth it on big monsters like hive tyrants and trygons.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2018/09/17 15:28:43
Subject: Are Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs worthwhile on Termagants?
On Hormies the Adrenal Gland is tempting, but a tough choice still. One of those to take if you got an awkward number of points to fill. If you are deep striking them (Trygons, Tyrannocyte, Enemy Below) then it probably is worth it.
I always take AGs on any Monster that wants to get into melee, like Trygons and Hive Tyrants.
Toxin Sacs I don't really ever take.
2018/09/17 16:11:41
Subject: Are Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs worthwhile on Termagants?
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
2018/09/17 21:27:34
Subject: Are Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs worthwhile on Termagants?
I guess if you’re playing a Gorgon army for some reason, then toxin sacs might be worth it on some decent combat units, but never on termagants. 1 attack is not worth the investment.
2018/09/18 15:15:12
Subject: Are Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs worthwhile on Termagants?
^They have a great deployment advantage though. Getting guardsmen anywhere you either have to march them there on foot, or buy expensive transports that can only carry 10 at a time. Tyranids have easy ways to flood far corners of the table with hordes of models through tunneling there. Pretty neat.
Hormagaunts are a pretty different unit than either Guardsmen or Termagaunts. At 5 I think they're definitely a solid buy.
Insectum7 wrote: ^They have a great deployment advantage though. Getting guardsmen anywhere you either have to march them there on foot, or buy expensive transports that can only carry 10 at a time. Tyranids have easy ways to flood far corners of the table with hordes of models through tunneling there. Pretty neat.
Hormagaunts are a pretty different unit than either Guardsmen or Termagaunts. At 5 I think they're definitely a solid buy.
Well... Sort of. Trygons are pretty expensive if all you're going to use them for is Termagants. You need the Prime really too for Synapse, so you're talking about 200pts. Guard have the Valkyrie.
Or you have to be Jormungandr. Which is sort of like saying Space Marines are fine because Raven Guard are decent. That's not really fair.
2018/09/18 19:33:18
Subject: Are Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs worthwhile on Termagants?
Insectum7 wrote: ^They have a great deployment advantage though. Getting guardsmen anywhere you either have to march them there on foot, or buy expensive transports that can only carry 10 at a time. Tyranids have easy ways to flood far corners of the table with hordes of models through tunneling there. Pretty neat.
Hormagaunts are a pretty different unit than either Guardsmen or Termagaunts. At 5 I think they're definitely a solid buy.
Well... Sort of. Trygons are pretty expensive if all you're going to use them for is Termagants. You need the Prime really too for Synapse, so you're talking about 200pts. Guard have the Valkyrie.
Or you have to be Jormungandr. Which is sort of like saying Space Marines are fine because Raven Guard are decent. That's not really fair.
Trygons themselves are pretty good units, as opposed to lots of other delivery methods which are mostly just a transport (Rhinos, Chimeras, etc.) 2 Trygons gets you 60 models deep striking, which can be a shock. For Synapse you could potentially fly a Flyrant over, or use one of the move-twice stratagems to get a Broodlord or whatever over there.
The Termagaunts can be upgraded to Devgaunts too, if you're looking for more bang for your transport-buck.
But yes, I use Jormangunder, so I can just use Raveners and get the same results, and use more CPs to bring in Synapse or whatever else.
I'm certainly not complaining about Termagants though, they're perfectly decent for a 4pt model
As many people said elsewhere the problem lies in gardsmen being too cheap (only Guard apologists will tell you otherwise)
Hormagaunts are definitely overpriced and not worth 5 pts per model (being a tarpit and nothing more)
2018/09/18 20:07:21
Subject: Are Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs worthwhile on Termagants?
I'm certainly not complaining about Termagants though, they're perfectly decent for a 4pt model
As many people said elsewhere the problem lies in gardsmen being too cheap (only Guard apologists will tell you otherwise)
Hormagaunts are definitely overpriced and not worth 5 pts per model (being a tarpit and nothing more)
They are a very, very fast tarpit though. That 6" pile in/consolidate is crazy. Coupled with an 8" move and access to charging after Advancing. They can be a game-winning unit by virtue of just being able to connect with so much stuff.
I'm certainly not complaining about Termagants though, they're perfectly decent for a 4pt model
As many people said elsewhere the problem lies in gardsmen being too cheap (only Guard apologists will tell you otherwise)
Hormagaunts are definitely overpriced and not worth 5 pts per model (being a tarpit and nothing more)
They are a very, very fast tarpit though. That 6" pile in/consolidate is crazy. Coupled with an 8" move and access to charging after Advancing. They can be a game-winning unit by virtue of just being able to connect with so much stuff.
But Guardsman can Move Move Move, are 5+, can shoot and melee, Cat can be S4 melee as well, who cares about extra piles in when you can flood the board with literally 33% more bodies with 16.7% more durability, that can shoot and melee.
I'm certainly not complaining about Termagants though, they're perfectly decent for a 4pt model
As many people said elsewhere the problem lies in gardsmen being too cheap (only Guard apologists will tell you otherwise)
Hormagaunts are definitely overpriced and not worth 5 pts per model (being a tarpit and nothing more)
They are a very, very fast tarpit though. That 6" pile in/consolidate is crazy. Coupled with an 8" move and access to charging after Advancing. They can be a game-winning unit by virtue of just being able to connect with so much stuff.
T3 6+ is literally the worst profile in the game to take damage...paying 5 points for it and having no deal "damage" output (even when you combine multiple stratagems and buffs) is astonishingly bad. They should be 4 pts like Termagants and Gargoyles 5 pt (I can take Neophyte Hybrids for 5 pts and I can assure you that they are MUCH STRONGER than 'gants variants)
2018/09/18 21:59:26
Subject: Are Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs worthwhile on Termagants?
I'm certainly not complaining about Termagants though, they're perfectly decent for a 4pt model
As many people said elsewhere the problem lies in gardsmen being too cheap (only Guard apologists will tell you otherwise)
Hormagaunts are definitely overpriced and not worth 5 pts per model (being a tarpit and nothing more)
They are a very, very fast tarpit though. That 6" pile in/consolidate is crazy. Coupled with an 8" move and access to charging after Advancing. They can be a game-winning unit by virtue of just being able to connect with so much stuff.
T3 6+ is literally the worst profile in the game to take damage...
1 point of armor less than Guard, which are lauded as some of the toughest troops in the game around these parts.
KurtAngle2 wrote: paying 5 points for it and having no deal "damage" output (even when you combine multiple stratagems and buffs) is astonishingly bad.
You're not generally buying them to knock wounds off things. You're buying them to stop the enemy from damaging you, by locking up units or forcing them to fall back/not fire next turn.
KurtAngle2 wrote: They should be 4 pts like Termagants and Gargoyles 5 pt (I can take Neophyte Hybrids for 5 pts and I can assure you that they are MUCH STRONGER than 'gants variants)
But not nearly the potential speed, which is sorta their entire point.
I'm certainly not complaining about Termagants though, they're perfectly decent for a 4pt model
As many people said elsewhere the problem lies in gardsmen being too cheap (only Guard apologists will tell you otherwise)
Hormagaunts are definitely overpriced and not worth 5 pts per model (being a tarpit and nothing more)
They are a very, very fast tarpit though. That 6" pile in/consolidate is crazy. Coupled with an 8" move and access to charging after Advancing. They can be a game-winning unit by virtue of just being able to connect with so much stuff.
T3 6+ is literally the worst profile in the game to take damage...
1 point of armor less than Guard, which are lauded as some of the toughest troops in the game around these parts.
KurtAngle2 wrote: paying 5 points for it and having no deal "damage" output (even when you combine multiple stratagems and buffs) is astonishingly bad.
You're not generally buying them to knock wounds off things. You're buying them to stop the enemy from damaging you, by locking up units or forcing them to fall back/not fire next turn.
KurtAngle2 wrote: They should be 4 pts like Termagants and Gargoyles 5 pt (I can take Neophyte Hybrids for 5 pts and I can assure you that they are MUCH STRONGER than 'gants variants)
But not nearly the potential speed, which is sorta their entire point.
Guess what, 1 point more and literally not saving any wound...1/6 to 1/3 doesn't even compare man
2018/09/18 22:14:17
Subject: Are Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs worthwhile on Termagants?
Tyranid troops are overshadowed by Guard, yes, but everyone's troops are overshadowed by Guard, to an insane degree.
Hormagants aren't worthless. They can kill Eldar and Dark Eldar fairly well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/18 22:21:09
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
2018/09/18 22:56:34
Subject: Are Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs worthwhile on Termagants?
Cool way to have a discussion, if you dont want to talk about it,then you get out.
Wow, dude. Might want to take it down a notch or two.
As I said in my first post about them. Hormagaunts are not intended to work like Guard, and their strengths (and weaknesses) reflect that. You can spend all day complaining that they aren't Guard, but that's not their purpose. Since you don't seem to bee keen on even acknowledging their strengths, it's pretty clear that this isn't going to go anywhere.
They are fast. They are excellent at exploiting a break in opponent lines and at dashing in and contacting as many units as possible in order to shut them down. They can do this better than Guardsmen, and Acolytes, because again, they are fast. If you're looking for a unit to do something else (like imitate Guardsmen) then don't take them. Easy peasy.
Cool way to have a discussion, if you dont want to talk about it,then you get out.
Wow, dude. Might want to take it down a notch or two.
As I said in my first post about them. Hormagaunts are not intended to work like Guard, and their strengths (and weaknesses) reflect that. You can spend all day complaining that they aren't Guard, but that's not their purpose. Since you don't seem to bee keen on even acknowledging their strengths, it's pretty clear that this isn't going to go anywhere.
They are fast. They are excellent at exploiting a break in opponent lines and at dashing in and contacting as many units as possible in order to shut them down. They can do this better than Guardsmen, and Acolytes, because again, they are fast. If you're looking for a unit to do something else (like imitate Guardsmen) then don't take them. Easy peasy.
You said what you needed to say, we all know we dont have to take units we dont like, you added nothing to the discussion.
Back onto topic;
Hgants dont do enough damage or are reliable enough for TX, so they dont need TS. They already are fast, so they dont need AG for what you are paying for already, 5 points for them is too high already (for now).
Cool way to have a discussion, if you dont want to talk about it,then you get out.
Wow, dude. Might want to take it down a notch or two.
Insectum, I'd recommend not engaging with this guy. He consistently posts factually incorrect stuff about Tyranids and will never, ever, ever backdown no matter how wrong he is, and instead just gets more and more hostile per reply, until he eventually gets to the point where he says "okay this is why I'm right now let's get back on topic" as if any disagreement with his was simply not on topic. There's not a worthwhile discussion to be had, when he posts, if it's wrong I've taken to just expressing quietly that I disagree without quoting him, and trying not to get roped into some argument with a brick wall.
So, in this case I disagree.
Hormagants are great. Their tarpitting ability and Tyranid strats just makes them good. A unit of 19 can tarpit like they were Genestealers except they cost only 95 pts. Nick Nanavati listed them as one of the biggest threats in the meta right now, combined with Nids/GSC psychic support, I too think they are a great unit, I run one and am considering going up to 2 just for consistency, they are cheap enough to get away with it too. And they provide semi decent assault coverage too to help pull threats off things like Fexes or even HG.
Termagants are 4 pt fearless bodies with good mobility thanks to Kraken. That's everything it needs to be. 18" range on the guns would be nice, but you can definitely include Devourers in larger units.
Guardsmen are obviously OP but it doesn't make Tyranid units worse in a broad meta.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2018/09/19 00:00:25
Subject: Are Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs worthwhile on Termagants?
You said what you needed to say, we all know we dont have to take units we dont like, you added nothing to the discussion.
Sure sure, why discuss the strengths of a unit in the OPs faction when we can just create another thread where we sit around and whine about Guardsmen.
. . .
I'd make a case for occasionally putting Adrenal Glands on Hormagaunts, but I wouldn't glue them onto the models if you know what I'm saying.
To stay on topic, If you are going to DS them (tho i'd rather DS other uits) i would put AG on them, AG in a Behemoth army to have a 8" re-rolling charge, sadly you can only DS 20 units unless its with Trygons, or Jormungandr and Stratagems.
Cool way to have a discussion, if you dont want to talk about it,then you get out.
Wow, dude. Might want to take it down a notch or two.
Insectum, I'd recommend not engaging with this guy. He consistently posts factually incorrect stuff about Tyranids and will never, ever, ever backdown no matter how wrong he is, and instead just gets more and more hostile per reply, until he eventually gets to the point where he says "okay this is why I'm right now let's get back on topic" as if any disagreement with his was simply not on topic. There's not a worthwhile discussion to be had, when he posts, if it's wrong I've taken to just expressing quietly that I disagree without quoting him, and trying not to get roped into some argument with a brick wall.
So, in this case I disagree.
Hormagants are great. Their tarpitting ability and Tyranid strats just makes them good. A unit of 19 can tarpit like they were Genestealers except they cost only 95 pts. Nick Nanavati listed them as one of the biggest threats in the meta right now, combined with Nids/GSC psychic support, I too think they are a great unit, I run one and am considering going up to 2 just for consistency, they are cheap enough to get away with it too. And they provide semi decent assault coverage too to help pull threats off things like Fexes or even HG.
Termagants are 4 pt fearless bodies with good mobility thanks to Kraken. That's everything it needs to be. 18" range on the guns would be nice, but you can definitely include Devourers in larger units.
Guardsmen are obviously OP but it doesn't make Tyranid units worse in a broad meta.
Please dont try to start fights, unless you have proof that i said something is wrong and you want to talk about that, then sure be my guess, but you stating non-facts is how topics turn into mods deleting them, you need to stop.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/09/19 07:56:57