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Hi guys with the rewording on the infiltrate strategems... Ive noticed something cool in RAW, which keeps them as strong as they used to be, but at the cost of more CP.

Here's one of them for ease of refference:

Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus, page 98 – Clandestine Infiltration
Change this Stratagem to read:
‘Use this Stratagem when you set up a Stygies VIII unit from your army during deployment. At the start of the first
battle round but before the first turn begins, you can move that unit up to 9". It cannot end this move within 9" of
any enemy models. If both players have units that can move before the first turn begins, the player who is taking the
first turn moves their units first.’

So the loophole.... there is nothing by RAW stopping you from declaring more than one use of these stratagems on the same unit... and there by moving them up to 9 inches, multiple times before the begining of the game.

Its still a nerf as it will cost more CP... but its not as bad as it originally looked.

You use it "when you set up" the unit. A unit is set up only once...

Wouldn't be so sure, since you use the stratagem when you set up the unit.

Generally, Stratagems can be played multiple times during deployment, but the trigger-condition for this one, setting up a unit, only happens once per unit during deployment.

You can obviously play it multiple times on different units as you set them up.

So where in the rules does a 'trigger condition' limit you to only doing one thing? because I've looked, there isn't anywhere. The only limit is that you cant use a stratagem twice during a phase.

If you want to resolve the effect sequentially, rather than simultaneously, it would seem obvious you play the stratagem sequentially, not simultaneously.

Otherwise you'd move simultaneously 9" multiple times from it's starting position, no? (potentially multiplying the unit? Lol, that'd be fun).

But by and large, people haven't played ... say .. Victor of the Blood Games five times on one Shield Captain during Deployment to get 5 re-rolls. They don't stack. It's played once when you set up the unit.

secretForge wrote:
So where in the rules does a 'trigger condition' limit you to only doing one thing? because I've looked, there isn't anywhere. The only limit is that you cant use a stratagem twice during a phase.

You deploy unit, you use strategem. Unit is now been already deployed.to use strategem again you would need to deploy him again. Guess i'm fine with allowing that as you need to deploy unit on dz so you have to go back. Not sure why you wou'd want that though

Sunny Side Up wrote:
If you want to resolve the effect sequentially, rather than simultaneously, it would seem obvious you play the stratagem sequentially, not simultaneously.

Otherwise you'd move simultaneously 9" multiple times from it's starting position, no? (potentially multiplying the unit? Lol, that'd be fun).

But by and large, people haven't played ... say .. Victor of the Blood Games five times on one Shield Captain during Deployment to get 5 re-rolls. They don't stack. It's played once when you set up the unit.

Its also entirely possible to be sequential... as the rule only states to play the strategem 'when', and not 'immediately after', and as no action is ever psychically possible to be instantaneous, you can just say you're doing it twice, one after the other as you put your model / models down.

There are no rules in 40k for stacks, or instantaneous actions.

Yeah, no. This doesn't work that way. You can only use it once. This is like saying you can shoot any unit an infinite amount of times because you can select it multiple times.

tneva82 wrote:

secretForge wrote:
So where in the rules does a 'trigger condition' limit you to only doing one thing? because I've looked, there isn't anywhere. The only limit is that you cant use a stratagem twice during a phase.

You deploy unit, you use strategem. Unit is now been already deployed.to use strategem again you would need to deploy him again. Guess i'm fine with allowing that as you need to deploy unit on dz so you have to go back. Not sure why you wou'd want that though

The Strategem says when you deploy, it doesn't say immediately after. there is no requirement for this. otherwise you would also be arguing that its only ever possible to play one strategem at the start of a phase.

secretForge wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

secretForge wrote:
So where in the rules does a 'trigger condition' limit you to only doing one thing? because I've looked, there isn't anywhere. The only limit is that you cant use a stratagem twice during a phase.

You deploy unit, you use strategem. Unit is now been already deployed.to use strategem again you would need to deploy him again. Guess i'm fine with allowing that as you need to deploy unit on dz so you have to go back. Not sure why you wou'd want that though

The Strategem says when you deploy, it doesn't say immediately after. there is no requirement for this. otherwise you would also be arguing that its only ever possible to play one strategem at the start of a phase.

Well, it seems you've convinced yourself. Do me a favour and record yourself arguing that at your next tournament. Would love to have a YouTube clip of that, lol.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

secretForge wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

secretForge wrote:
So where in the rules does a 'trigger condition' limit you to only doing one thing? because I've looked, there isn't anywhere. The only limit is that you cant use a stratagem twice during a phase.

You deploy unit, you use strategem. Unit is now been already deployed.to use strategem again you would need to deploy him again. Guess i'm fine with allowing that as you need to deploy unit on dz so you have to go back. Not sure why you wou'd want that though

The Strategem says when you deploy, it doesn't say immediately after. there is no requirement for this. otherwise you would also be arguing that its only ever possible to play one strategem at the start of a phase.

Well, it seems you've convinced yourself. Do me a favour and record yourself arguing that at your next tournament. Would love to have a YouTube clip of that, lol.

As have you. Dont get me wrong, I know that the majority of people dont want people to do things like this, but then they also manufacture imagined sequencing rules that dont exist in order to protect their world view of how the rules work.

I also know that this is almost certainly against RAI... but then again so were 0 inch charges from the top of buildings. Which was also RAW until GW realised that they fked up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yeah, no. This doesn't work that way. You can only use it once. This is like saying you can shoot any unit an infinite amount of times because you can select it multiple times.

Dang.... you're completely right... there isnt actually a RAW limitation on the number of times you can select the same unit to shoot (I had to go and double check)... thats actually kinda hilarious. Though I disagree in that I don't think these really fall under the same umbrella of ridiculousness.

secretForge wrote:
Dang.... you're completely right... there isnt actually a RAW limitation on the number of times you can select the same unit to shoot (I had to go and double check)... thats actually kinda hilarious. Though I disagree in that I don't think these really fall under the same umbrella of ridiculousness.

There is also no definition on what a dice is. I could roll a dice with all 6's on it. There is a point where you need to use the English Language instead of definitions to parse the game.

Rather than loophole the errata just don't play with it.