Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, a couple of months back, there was a thread on primarch rivalries where a poster proposed that Rogal Dorn and Perturabo may have been based on the Duke of Wellington and Napoleon, respectively. It was a pretty neat idea then.

Curze is pretty much Vlad Tepes in space.

Which other primarchs have clear real-life alter egos?

Jaghatai Kahn = Genghis Kahn

Perhaps Leman Russ = Vercingetorix (gaulic genral who fought romans)? I don't know many other known historical figures that lead bands of barbarians.

I'd also bet that Guilloman was based off of Germanicus or some other era-parallel general. General space-roman theme - they look somewhat similar too, and both are glory-hounds.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
So, a couple of months back, there was a thread on primarch rivalries where a poster proposed that Rogal Dorn and Perturabo may have been based on the Duke of Wellington and Napoleon, respectively. It was a pretty neat idea then.

Not really. Neither was noted as a siege commander or fortifier. Wellington was a noted defensive general but in the field, not from fortress walls.

If I had to pick a real-life model for Perturabo, I'd go with Sebastian de Vauban

Curze is pretty much Vlad Tepes in space.

Agreed.

Jaghatai Kahn = Genghis Kahn

Given that he wasn't given to wholesale massacre and was actually pretty civilised, plus - you know - his name, I suggest Chagatai Khan, who actually ruled (and expanded) that empire, but was a much more diplomatic and enlightened man than his father.

I'd also bet that Guilloman was based off of Germanicus or some other era-parallel general. General space-roman theme - they look somewhat similar too, and both are glory-hounds.

As an adopted son who ends up ruling after avenging a murdered father, the obvious parallel would be Gaius Octavius, AKA Augustus, the first Emperor of rome.

Perhaps Leman Russ = Vercingetorix (gaulic genral who fought romans)? I don't know many other known historical figures that lead bands of barbarians.

The Rout are pretty heavily based off the Varangii - essentially vikings sworn into byzantian imperial service as an elite guard and personal enforcers for the emperor. They were noted for excessively barbaric appearance and sometimes 'played up' the 'look at me, I'm an ignorant savage, whoops, deary me, I resorted to violence' card to cut through the politics of an empire which literally gave the world the word byzantine. The fact that they literally use the varangii term to describe wolf guard terminators is a pretty clear hint.




Angron is a pretty thinly disguised Spartacus

 EmpNortonII wrote:
So, a couple of months back, there was a thread on primarch rivalries where a poster proposed that Rogal Dorn and Perturabo may have been based on the Duke of Wellington and Napoleon, respectively. It was a pretty neat idea then.

Perturabo = Napoleon ? Why that ?
I don't know enough about Wellington, but I am willing to know more about this funny comparison, do you have any link ?

Found it.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/762074.page

I would agree that Roboute is either Julius Caesar or Octavian (Augustus) depending on how 'dark' you want to view it.

Octavian is the adopted son who remodeled the army to fit the new demands of empire. He put down schismatics and cemented his place as 'emporer'

Caesar was fundamental in conquering huge swathes of the Roman Empire and put down 'enemies' of the Roman Republic in a way that left him as the main person ready to take over.

El'Johnson could perhaps be said to be one of the Teutonic or Templar grandmasters (or an amalgamation of several). Monastic, knightly societies, for whom 'internal' corruption may have caused their downfall. Ulrich von Jungingen led the knights into a disastrous defeat at the hands of their fellow Christians (and not against the pagans they were supposed to be fighting). The Teutonic Knights were also accused of naughty shenanigans but nothing was ever proven and they were not disbanded.

An obsession with logistics as the most important part of warfare. A statesman as much as a general. Advocating a society based on reason and meritocracy over the superstition and hereditary warlordism of the past. Devising and encoding an entire system of law that would long outlast its creator. An idealist who knew when to bow to pragmatism (e.g. despising the Church, but eventually coming to an 'understanding' with them). Presented himself as a reluctant ruler, forced into the position because there was no-one else who could do the job, but deep down secretly really wanted to rule. Came back for another go after everyone thought he was finished. Changed his troops' uniforms to blue. Guilliman is Napoleon. The historical Napoleon that is, not the ridiculous stereotype most British people think of...

locarno24 wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
So, a couple of months back, there was a thread on primarch rivalries where a poster proposed that Rogal Dorn and Perturabo may have been based on the Duke of Wellington and Napoleon, respectively. It was a pretty neat idea then.

Not really. Neither was noted as a siege commander or fortifier. Wellington was a noted defensive general but in the field, not from fortress walls.

If I had to pick a real-life model for Perturabo, I'd go with Sebastian de Vauban

Curze is pretty much Vlad Tepes in space.

Agreed.

Jaghatai Kahn = Genghis Kahn

Given that he wasn't given to wholesale massacre and was actually pretty civilised, plus - you know - his name, I suggest Chagatai Khan, who actually ruled (and expanded) that empire, but was a much more diplomatic and enlightened man than his father.

I'd also bet that Guilloman was based off of Germanicus or some other era-parallel general. General space-roman theme - they look somewhat similar too, and both are glory-hounds.

As an adopted son who ends up ruling after avenging a murdered father, the obvious parallel would be Gaius Octavius, AKA Augustus, the first Emperor of rome.

Perhaps Leman Russ = Vercingetorix (gaulic genral who fought romans)? I don't know many other known historical figures that lead bands of barbarians.

The Rout are pretty heavily based off the Varangii - essentially vikings sworn into byzantian imperial service as an elite guard and personal enforcers for the emperor. They were noted for excessively barbaric appearance and sometimes 'played up' the 'look at me, I'm an ignorant savage, whoops, deary me, I resorted to violence' card to cut through the politics of an empire which literally gave the world the word byzantine. The fact that they literally use the varangii term to describe wolf guard terminators is a pretty clear hint.




Angron is a pretty thinly disguised Spartacus

If Russ draws from any one thing himself it would be Romulus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_and_Remus

Perhaps Leman Russ = Vercingetorix (gaulic genral who fought romans)? I don't know many other known historical figures that lead bands of barbarians.

The Rout are pretty heavily based off the Varangii - essentially vikings sworn into byzantian imperial service as an elite guard and personal enforcers for the emperor. They were noted for excessively barbaric appearance and sometimes 'played up' the 'look at me, I'm an ignorant savage, whoops, deary me, I resorted to violence' card to cut through the politics of an empire which literally gave the world the word byzantine. The fact that they literally use the varangii term to describe wolf guard terminators is a pretty clear hint.

 EmpNortonII wrote:


Curze is pretty much Vlad Tepes in space.

Not knowing much about Curze, I just assumed he was based on Kurtz from Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness (who in turn is the inspiration for Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now) .

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Perhaps Leman Russ = Vercingetorix (gaulic genral who fought romans)? I don't know many other known historical figures that lead bands of barbarians.

The Rout are pretty heavily based off the Varangii - essentially vikings sworn into byzantian imperial service as an elite guard and personal enforcers for the emperor. They were noted for excessively barbaric appearance and sometimes 'played up' the 'look at me, I'm an ignorant savage, whoops, deary me, I resorted to violence' card to cut through the politics of an empire which literally gave the world the word byzantine. The fact that they literally use the varangii term to describe wolf guard terminators is a pretty clear hint.

Good grief, the race called themselves “The Rus” you’re right, the evidence does keep piling up.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Perhaps Leman Russ = Vercingetorix (gaulic genral who fought romans)? I don't know many other known historical figures that lead bands of barbarians.

The Rout are pretty heavily based off the Varangii - essentially vikings sworn into byzantian imperial service as an elite guard and personal enforcers for the emperor. They were noted for excessively barbaric appearance and sometimes 'played up' the 'look at me, I'm an ignorant savage, whoops, deary me, I resorted to violence' card to cut through the politics of an empire which literally gave the world the word byzantine. The fact that they literally use the varangii term to describe wolf guard terminators is a pretty clear hint.

Good grief, the race called themselves “The Rus” you’re right, the evidence does keep piling up.

Which they further suggest by adding a dash of roman mythology to the mix, a foundling suckles by a wolf, whom eventually becomes King? Romulas of Rome

ody2002 wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:


Curze is pretty much Vlad Tepes in space.

Not knowing much about Curze, I just assumed he was based on Kurtz from Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness (who in turn is the inspiration for Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now) .

Very much so.

Some Primarchs may have historical or mythical inspiration, but others are "just" inspired by other fiction. Conrad Curze is definitely inspired by Heart of Darkness (another reference; his planet is Nostramo), but there's a fair amount of Batman in there too.

I don't know if Rogal Dorn is based on anyone in particular, but the Imperial Fists were given a heavy Prussian feel by Ian Watson in his novel Space Marine. before that, the picture of him in the 1st edition Epic Space marine rulebook makes him look like a square-jawed action hero, or possibly a builder:


Guilliman always struck me as Augustus more than Caesar

ody2002 wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:


Curze is pretty much Vlad Tepes in space.

Not knowing much about Curze, I just assumed he was based on Kurtz from Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness (who in turn is the inspiration for Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now) .

Definitely a heavy inspiration, to the point where the Callidus Assassin that actually took him out was named M'Shen. M'Shen = Martin Sheen

The timing does line up for him to based on him, but Iblike to thibk of Rogal Dorn being 40ks own “Worf” from star trek TNG. (played by Michael Dorn

I suppose it's possible - TNG first aired in 1987 and Space Marine came out in 1989.

I don;t see much of Worf in Rorgal Dorn, beyond the name.

Serious, duty bound, fiercely loyal, conservative and close minded, in heated rivalry with another figure ofnautbority for no particularly good reason, weirdly funny.

I can very much picture Dorn saying “I am not a merry man” with a pouty grump face.

But again, this is only my personal head canon- Im not saying there is a real connection at all

Angrons backstory was heavily based on the Spartacus mythos.

Kurze. Vlad the impaler.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dammit didn't read the full post!

 Duskweaver wrote:
An obsession with logistics as the most important part of warfare. A statesman as much as a general. Advocating a society based on reason and meritocracy over the superstition and hereditary warlordism of the past. Devising and encoding an entire system of law that would long outlast its creator. An idealist who knew when to bow to pragmatism (e.g. despising the Church, but eventually coming to an 'understanding' with them). Presented himself as a reluctant ruler, forced into the position because there was no-one else who could do the job, but deep down secretly really wanted to rule. Came back for another go after everyone thought he was finished. Changed his troops' uniforms to blue. Guilliman is Napoleon. The historical Napoleon that is, not the ridiculous stereotype most British people think of...

Brillant!

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:
An obsession with logistics as the most important part of warfare. A statesman as much as a general. Advocating a society based on reason and meritocracy over the superstition and hereditary warlordism of the past. Devising and encoding an entire system of law that would long outlast its creator. An idealist who knew when to bow to pragmatism (e.g. despising the Church, but eventually coming to an 'understanding' with them). Presented himself as a reluctant ruler, forced into the position because there was no-one else who could do the job, but deep down secretly really wanted to rule. Came back for another go after everyone thought he was finished. Changed his troops' uniforms to blue. Guilliman is Napoleon. The historical Napoleon that is, not the ridiculous stereotype most British people think of...

Brillant!

Whilst that's all true, the Empire aspect is more reminiscent of a Roman ruler, as is the inspiration for the looks and theme of the Ultras. One things for sure - they borrowed from a lot of historical leaders for Guilliman.

The Lion is a version of Mowgli who became King Arthur.
Arthurian themes are literally everywhere in DA lore, even if that badly match with their later obsession with secrecy.

Honestly I prefer the previous native americans vibe... it's a shame that's gone. My Deathwing still have their feathers.

 Ishagu wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Duskweaver wrote:
An obsession with logistics as the most important part of warfare. A statesman as much as a general. Advocating a society based on reason and meritocracy over the superstition and hereditary warlordism of the past. Devising and encoding an entire system of law that would long outlast its creator. An idealist who knew when to bow to pragmatism (e.g. despising the Church, but eventually coming to an 'understanding' with them). Presented himself as a reluctant ruler, forced into the position because there was no-one else who could do the job, but deep down secretly really wanted to rule. Came back for another go after everyone thought he was finished. Changed his troops' uniforms to blue. Guilliman is Napoleon. The historical Napoleon that is, not the ridiculous stereotype most British people think of...

Brillant!

Whilst that's all true, the Empire aspect is more reminiscent of a Roman ruler, as is the inspiration for the looks and theme of the Ultras. One things for sure - they borrowed from a lot of historical leaders for Guilliman.

yeah I'
m not sure if Gulliman is any ONE historical character so much as an archtype. the Conquering Warrior King who creates a golden age. In that regard I'd say Gulliman isn't so much "Ceaser" but he's the ideas and legends OF Ceaser. if that makes any sense.