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Hi, is it possible for a 1+ save to exist, considering that 1 always fail ? I heard about that but never did or saw it.
If not, why ?
Thanks !

First of all, you dont have a 1+ armor sv, no such thing exists. You have the armor sv on your datasheet, with +1, +2, +3, etc. to your armor sv. Now, lets say you have a 2+ armor sv with +2 to you armor sv. You are wounded by an AP-3 weapon. If you roll a 3+ you successfully pass your safe. 3 - 3 (AP) +2 (for your armor sv) = 2 .Which is your armor sv. If you roll a natural 1 you always fail, irrespective of any modifiers. Even if you are wounded with an AP0 weapon. You dont have an armor sv of 0+.

 godardc wrote:
Hi, is it possible for a 1+ save to exist, considering that 1 always fail ? I heard about that but never did or saw it.
If not, why ?
Thanks !

A +1 save is useful for mitigating armor modifiers. A 2+ save would normally get ignored by a -5 modifier, but with a 1+ save you get a 6+ save. They had the same system in WHFB; a save roll of a 1 will always fail, but its still used for save mods.

And unlike 40k you can build models to have 1+ saves, as armor stacked. It was quite common on heavy cavalry, especially chaos knights.
They had chaos armor (or something like that) which gave them 4+ save at first
Then a shield, which increases it to a 3+
Then a horse, which increases it to a 2+
The horse had barding, which increases it to a 1+

I think there was a way to make it go to 0+ or -1+, but I'm not sure.

As stated, the best save you can have in 40k right now is 2+. Modifiers alter the dice roll, not the statistic. Even if you had a 1+ statistic a 1 would always fail, it would just let you have a "2+" save even against AP -1 weapons.

As an example of this take any 4+ AM inf unit e.g Crusaders
Place that unit in cover +1sv 3+
Use the psychic batrier psychic power +1sv =2+
Use the take cover strategen +1sv = 1+

However 1's still fail so the last +1 is only relevent vs AP

U02dah4 wrote:
As an example of this take any 4+ AM inf unit e.g Crusaders
Place that unit in cover +1sv 3+
Use the psychic batrier psychic power +1sv =2+
Use the take cover strategen +1sv = 1+

However 1's still fail so the last +1 is only relevent vs AP

Again I feel that I must correct the mistake here. IMHO it's a very bad habit to fall into to say "4+ save with +1 to the roll is 3+" because it's not and can cause problems later. A 4+ save with +1 to the roll is a 4+ save on a D6+1 instead of a D6.

Another example would be Lias Issodon. 2+ save normally, but gets +2 when in cover so he'd have a 0+ save. This means a 1 would still fail but you'd need Ap-3 or more to actually affect his save.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Hi, is it possible for a 1+ save to exist, considering that 1 always fail ? I heard about that but never did or saw it.
If not, why ?
Thanks !

A +1 save is useful for mitigating armor modifiers. A 2+ save would normally get ignored by a -5 modifier, but with a 1+ save you get a 6+ save. They had the same system in WHFB; a save roll of a 1 will always fail, but its still used for save mods.

And unlike 40k you can build models to have 1+ saves, as armor stacked. It was quite common on heavy cavalry, especially chaos knights.
They had chaos armor (or something like that) which gave them 4+ save at first
Then a shield, which increases it to a 3+
Then a horse, which increases it to a 2+
The horse had barding, which increases it to a 1+

I think there was a way to make it go to 0+ or -1+, but I'm not sure.

There was. There was also edition where 1 did NOT automatically fail. Have fun facing 1+ with your S3(no ASM) guys!

Thank god 1 always fail rule was introduced.

I used to play Empire knights

 Valkyrie wrote:
Another example would be Lias Issodon. 2+ save normally, but gets +2 when in cover so he'd have a 0+ save. This means a 1 would still fail but you'd need Ap-3 or more to actually affect his save.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for !

#giveTerminators1+saves

 BaconCatBug wrote:
As stated, the best save you can have in 40k right now is 2+. Modifiers alter the dice roll, not the statistic. Even if you had a 1+ statistic a 1 would always fail, it would just let you have a "2+" save even against AP -1 weapons.

[Citation needed]. Clearly, the FAQ only addresses the issue with +1 WS, and particularly with only succubus and serpentine combat drug interaction and not with Sv characteristic.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "statistic". Surely you mean "characteristic"? The BRB makes no mention of anything called statistic.

 skchsan wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
As stated, the best save you can have in 40k right now is 2+. Modifiers alter the dice roll, not the statistic. Even if you had a 1+ statistic a 1 would always fail, it would just let you have a "2+" save even against AP -1 weapons.

[Citation needed]. Clearly, the FAQ only addresses the issue with +1 WS, and particularly with only succubus and serpentine combat drug interaction and not with Sv characteriatic.

The BRB, Page 181, Subsection "4. Saving Throw", final sentence? There doesn't need to be an FAQ for this because a) There is never a situation (currently) that gives a model a 1+ save characteristic in the current edition of Warhammer 40,000 and 2) Even if there was, the rules already tell you what to do. GWs insistence of wasting time and resources answering questions because people don't bother to read the rules is one of the things I very much dislike about 8th edition.

I regularly get a 1+ save on my Kastelan robots ... against weapons that don’t have AP.

The way the interaction happens is pretty odd but the manage it this way , A 3+ Base armour save .They start in Aegis protocol which is a Special mode that adds 1 to all of their saving rolls , Essentially a roll of a 2 becomes a 3 .. a 1 a 2 and so on , then they get canticles, meaning they can have Shroud psalm for … this unit always gets the benefit of cover.

(A roll of a one a may or may not always fail ) …. but robots in this mode don't care any rolls of 1’s as before modifiers they 2’s and if they have cover s unless the weapon has AP they literally cant fail their armour save

synthaside wrote:
I regularly get a 1+ save on my Kastelan robots ... against weapons that don’t have AP.

The way the interaction happens is pretty odd but the manage it this way , A 3+ Base armour save .They start in Aegis protocol which is a Special mode that adds 1 to all of their saving rolls , Essentially a roll of a 2 becomes a 3 .. a 1 a 2 and so on , then they get canticles, meaning they can have Shroud psalm for … this unit always gets the benefit of cover.

(A roll of a one a may or may not always fail ) …. but robots in this mode don't care any rolls of 1’s as before modifiers they 2’s and if they have cover s unless the weapon has AP they literally cant fail their armour save

You still fail on a 1 though.

A natural roll of a 1 is a fail, regardless of what modifiers apply to it. If the dice lands showing a 1 on the face, you fail.

Then you have been accidently cheating your opponent check the save rule again

". A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that
may apply."

So your natural 1's fail.

Aegis reads " You can add one to any armour and saving throw you make for this model "

As i read it , this alters the dice result and applies after re-rolls before other modifiers .

synthaside wrote:
Aegis reads " You can add one to any armour and saving throw you make for this model "

As i read it , this alters the dice result and applies after re-rolls before other modifiers .

No. It modifies the dice roll and therefore is a modifier.

synthaside wrote:
Aegis reads " You can add one to any armour and saving throw you make for this model "

As i read it , this alters the dice result and applies after re-rolls before other modifiers .

But it is still a modifier. A roll of a 1 on the dice fails, no matter what, even if any modifiers would then turn it into a 9.

synthaside wrote:
Aegis reads " You can add one to any armour and saving throw you make for this model "

As i read it , this alters the dice result and applies after re-rolls before other modifiers .

Adding or subtracting from a dice roll is literally the definition of a modifier in this game.