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So this chap attends a local tourney rocking a horde ork list (think might be a name on uk tourney scene) and he wins over and over again, its a credit to him he's a great tactician and i faced him last week and lost horribly.

Now his list is fluffy a hell and so i can't complain of OP but damn... i can't think of a way to beat it in a tournament setting where because of his list you aint getting more than 2 - 3 turns.

What he does is basically run 90 storm boyz, 70 boyz then a clever mix of meks warbosses and pain boyz on bikes and some weirdboyz for da jump. It's a crazy list because you have 150+ bodies to face which all over 6+ a 5+ inv and a 6+ FNP! the storm boyz can advance and charge using the warboss ability so are in combat turn one easy. The pain boyz chime in with -4 kill saws. You dent a unit it dont care because of LD bonuses

Faced by such a foe (pic posted for funs) what the hell you do, skill of the play removed from the equasion!? the easy answer is to shoot them quick! which is easier said than done, my quad heavy bolter fire raptor could at best kill 5-6 orks.

If you can't get past 2-3 turns he's slowplaying or it's like <2h rounds. In 3h rounds I have played 300+ model ork game to T4(and had time but gave up at the point).

Oh and stormboyz aren't getting T1 combat easily unless you move ahead first. 12"+d6+2d6+1=23.5" average reach...Obviously enemy won't be exactly 24.1" unless he wants so he's looking at at least 3-4" more than average. And then he loses 1/6 of his unit whether it reached combat or not...

I play with even bigger horde and it gets shot to death. The green tide was scary about 12 months ago. Not so anymore. Now only way that army CAN win is slowplay like hell so it's 2-3 turn game. If ork player doesn't slow play so it goes to full 5+ turns it loses. Wiped off the board.



Here's even bigger swarm. That and variations of it have been no issue whatsoever for enemy so far. Only time the tide was stomping was against grey knights and...well grey knights suck even more than orks. They are in so bad shape even orks feel sorry for them. Only army that needs new codex even worse than orks is the grey knights.

oh look the new meta

Bring 90 Stormboyz and..

spend days placing them all back upright everytime they fall over

5cent coins to the base and problem solved.

Or put some 3rd party jump packs to regular boyz.

Either way they will get focus fired. If you go 2nd they will face likely 2 rounds of shooting. And if you don't have warboss nearby attempt to advance and charge self-imolates 1/6 of the squad. They are nice enough but hardly tournament top level unless ork player slowplays like hell.

tneva82 wrote:
5cent coins to the base and problem solved.

Or put some 3rd party jump packs to regular boyz.

Either way they will get focus fired. If you go 2nd they will face likely 2 rounds of shooting. And if you don't have warboss nearby attempt to advance and charge self-imolates 1/6 of the squad. They are nice enough but hardly tournament top level unless ork player slowplays like hell.

Sorry Tneva

I was sarcastically assuming slow play.

oh very much not a slow play type of guy, very respectful used a GW dice rolling app (i agreed), moved models quick and bunched others in a pile behind a row for time saving etc

must just of been a good player and my list was well a bit of a crap match i guess (a fellblade, fireraptor and a crap ton of cultists).

he still managed to win the whole tourney and the one before it, 20-40 players and its not a friendly event, knight soup etc

So how long rounds? If 3h he def slowplayed and his skill is doing that so you didn#t notice. Twice the models isn't problem in 3h rounds.

That list is zero problem as long as ork player doesn't slowplay to 2-3 turns. Game is 5+ turns.

Not getting past turn 2 or 3 is the problem.

If I recognise those orks and I think I do then I've also played the guy and can say he didn't slowplay me. We made it to turn 6 where the game ended on the dice roll not the clock.

However the answer is to kill the characters so they lose the buffs then the hordes die in droves. In 2-3 turns you definitely do not have time to do that. theres clearly an issue with the speed of play. I'm not saying its the ork players fault however something needs to change there, limited pts per game if you dont complete x games, longer rounds, something.
Because its not fair to only play half a game every game then declare a winner every game. It dramatically skews the way the game is played and scores.

Again i think i know the guy with this ork army and I'm in no way accusing him of slowplaying, just that theres a clear problem with hordes and round times if that event he only got to turn 2 or 3.

well technically i was tabled by turn 3 as my fire raptor was the only thing left but that was close to the end

pretty sure they were 2 and a half hr games.

Sneggy wrote:
Not getting past turn 2 or 3 is the problem.

If I recognise those orks and I think I do then I've also played the guy and can say he didn't slowplay me. We made it to turn 6 where the game ended on the dice roll not the clock.

However the answer is to kill the characters so they lose the buffs then the hordes die in droves. In 2-3 turns you definitely do not have time to do that. theres clearly an issue with the speed of play. I'm not saying its the ork players fault however something needs to change there, limited pts per game if you dont complete x games, longer rounds, something.
Because its not fair to only play half a game every game then declare a winner every game. It dramatically skews the way the game is played and scores.

Again i think i know the guy with this ork army and I'm in no way accusing him of slowplaying, just that theres a clear problem with hordes and round times if that event he only got to turn 2 or 3.

Yes well but if game goes 2-3 turns only one player slowplays. So either he or you. Playing twice the models isn't problem. I do. So either he slowplays as part of his strategy or his opponents play poorly losing on time.

That army isn't issue. Slowplaying by one player is. No way that gmes 2-3 turns max unless game is like 1.5h(at which point tournament organizer is at blame) or one player slowplays

Have used hordes in other games (FoW, Soviet Conscripts!) would agree its not fair to even think of running such at an event unless you can deploy and operate a turn quickly (I found my turns were usually faster than my opponent there)

Also run orks, the issues to play them quickly are the same - learn how not to get in your own way - traffic management is key, and learn when its worth rolling dice and when it just isn't.

as for killing them.. agree on nail the characters, needs snipers in quantity. Orks drop like flies but it takes time to do it - with that list I'm going to guess the Stormboyz leap forwards, and die - but this means the rest reach you more or less intact and its all over.

What I have found is utter murder on my orks is fliers with hurricane bolters, they seem to have the crowd control role nailed - largely immune to assault (ok storm boyz could go for them, but if they do that they are not piling towards you).

if you can't kill the characters the other alternative is to literally ignore the characters, focus on weakening the first ork wave, so when it gets to combat its dangerous but not lethal, then focus on crippling the follow up wave thats the one that does the cleaning up?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yes, follow up.

this is critical

don't be intimidated by the sight of it

can;t stress this enough, part of the strength of a horde is the ability to make the opponent totally forget the game plan they had and thing "sweet mother of something, what do I do against that!!!"

keep to you plan, focus on what you need to do, boyz roll a lot of dice but its S4 AP0 for the most part so they need a lot of dice to do much.

There is a wildcard option, but it requires you to have a force that can fight up close, charge them, orks drop like flies even faster in combat, and each dead ork is a lot of close up combat punch removed