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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/10/06 14:59:27
Subject: Knights with Death Grip can one-shot a Fortress of Redemption?
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Dakka Veteran
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I think I found a really weird rules interaction and I wanted to check if I am missing anything here.
The Fortress of Redemption is listed in the Dark Angels section of the Imperium 1 index. It is a building with strength 0 and 30 wounds.
Imperial Knights with a thunderstrike gauntlet can spend one command point to use the Death Grip stratagem, allowing them to pick up models and crush them until they are able to break free.
From what I can tell, a knight could charge a Fortress of Redemption and then use Death Grip after it has attacked. It will automatically hit the Fortress to 'grab' it, after which the knight and fortress will repeatedly roll off using a D6 plus their strength score, inflicting D3 mortal wounds if the giant building is not able to wriggle out of its grip. Since the Fortress has 0 strength it will always lose and will be mortal wounded to death in a single turn.
Am I missing anything here or would this play out like I suggest? Granted, it isn't likely to happen since the Fortress is a Dark Angels-only model that is listed in the index but not the codex.
I believe there was an FAQ somewhere (which I, of course, can no longer find) saying that Death Grip should use toughness instead of strength if target model doesn't have a strength score, preventing this from working on most other buildings. In this particular case though, I would argue that a strength score of 0 is not the same as no strength score (that would be strength '-').
Thoughts?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/06 15:00:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/10/06 15:32:20
Subject: Knights with Death Grip can one-shot a Fortress of Redemption?
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
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Yes this works as you say.
The Fortress does have a S score, albeit zero, so you don't use T instead.
Intended? Probably not. But then this is an index only fortification that next to no one uses, so not surprising it would be missed.
Given that other fortifications generally have a Strength of '-' though, I would hope there wouldn't be much resistance to house ruling this for the fortress too, you'd just need to discuss it with your opponent if it was something that might come up.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/06 15:34:52
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/10/06 15:35:26
Subject: Knights with Death Grip can one-shot a Fortress of Redemption?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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Actually anyone can take the model as a fortification if they wanted, but you'll rarely see it on the table because for it's points it's a pile of steaming gak, especially compared to how it used to work.
Aside from that, yes the stratagem does seem to allow for a knight to pull a building apart.
Even if you allow that the building is rolling an unmodified d6 the knight would always win the rolloff.
I get the feeling that the FOR was supposed to have S - , but as it stands RAW it would seem to work. Bit of a dick move possibly, especially since the only time you'll ever see one is in a casual as hell game
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The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/10/06 15:54:58
Subject: Knights with Death Grip can one-shot a Fortress of Redemption?
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Norn Queen
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I can confirm this is indeed the case. A S of 0 is not a S of -. Pre-FAQ this was the case for any model with a S of - as well.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/06 15:55:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/10/06 18:39:54
Subject: Knights with Death Grip can one-shot a Fortress of Redemption?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Ascalam wrote:Actually anyone can take the model as a fortification if they wanted, but you'll rarely see it on the table because for it's points it's a pile of steaming gak, especially compared to how it used to work.
Aside from that, yes the stratagem does seem to allow for a knight to pull a building apart.
Even if you allow that the building is rolling an unmodified d6 the knight would always win the rolloff.
I get the feeling that the FOR was supposed to have S - , but as it stands RAW it would seem to work. Bit of a dick move possibly, especially since the only time you'll ever see one is in a casual as hell game 
Indeed. You’d have to hate having friends to try this particular “well ackshually”.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/10/06 20:01:27
Subject: Knights with Death Grip can one-shot a Fortress of Redemption?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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BaconCatBug wrote:I can confirm this is indeed the case. A S of 0 is not a S of -. Pre- FAQ this was the case for any model with a S of - as well.
Indeed. When did you get hired by GW?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/10/06 21:53:03
Subject: Knights with Death Grip can one-shot a Fortress of Redemption?
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Damsel of the Lady
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JohnnyHell wrote: Ascalam wrote:Actually anyone can take the model as a fortification if they wanted, but you'll rarely see it on the table because for it's points it's a pile of steaming gak, especially compared to how it used to work.
Aside from that, yes the stratagem does seem to allow for a knight to pull a building apart.
Even if you allow that the building is rolling an unmodified d6 the knight would always win the rolloff.
I get the feeling that the FOR was supposed to have S - , but as it stands RAW it would seem to work. Bit of a dick move possibly, especially since the only time you'll ever see one is in a casual as hell game 
Indeed. You’d have to hate having friends to try this particular “well ackshually”.
My group plays pretty strict RAW so we'd probably laugh and destroy the fortress. No actually involved.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/10/06 23:18:56
Subject: Knights with Death Grip can one-shot a Fortress of Redemption?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Cool, at least everyone in your group would be in on it and expecting the same, so no harm no foul.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/10/08 13:22:46
Subject: Re:Knights with Death Grip can one-shot a Fortress of Redemption?
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Dakka Veteran
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Cool, thanks for the input
I always enjoy finding unintended rules interactions that make no sense
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8930 points 6800 points 75 points 600 points
2810 points 5740 points 2650 points 3275 points
55 points 640 points 1840 points 435 points
2990 points 700 points 2235 points 1935 points
3460 points 1595 points 2480 points 2895 points
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