Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2018/10/31 19:04:17
Subject: Nurgle Demons vs Evil Sunz Green Tide - 2k ITC - May da Ork be wit you! (GAME COMPLETE)
So a while back I was scheduled to play local Ork player Arthur, but the game was postponed due to a tournament popping up. With the release of the Ork codex this coming week, Arthur and I have finally gotten around to scheduling the matchup! Arthur plans on testing a green tide, and wanting ITC experience with his Orks. After some discussion he decided to run all Evil Sunz; mostly for the +1 move and charge distance; he said a majority of his issues seem to come from failed charges and coming up just shy. As for myself, I have been wanting a reason to run an all-Demon list for a while, so why the hell not? I feel like this may not be the most competitive option, but I have yet to be able to field all my demons in a single game... and why have a model if your never gonna use it?
This list is built entirely around Epidemus and trying to maximize the buffs provided. It also has a heavy recursion element, between Horn of Nurgle and Bilepiper supporting 60 plagues. This list will be extremely CP hungry, utilizing the reroll 1's and 4++ strats often.
Mission and Deployment For the mission we rolled ITC mission 5; one objective in the center, then each player places 2 objectives. One can be anywhere that is 12" from the others and 6" from an edge, and the other follows the same rules but in your deployment zone. We got spearhead deployment, and Nurgle deployed first. Arthur took Headhunter, Reaper, and Big Game Hunter, while I took Headhunter, Reaper, and Recon.
Deployment looked like this:
Arthur spent 1 CP to turn his Weirdboy in the wagon into whatever the buffed psycher is, spent 1 CP for an extra relic, and 2 CP to throw the battlewagon (laden with the Warboss, a big mek, painboy, and 10 tankbustas) into deep strike. I spent 1 CP for an extra relic (Horn of Nurgle).
Orks won the roll off, and Nurgle elected to not roll to seize. I knew he was going to come at me, and defensively I felt like I was in a good place to absorb the initial shock.
Orks Turn 1
Spoiler:
Orks do what orks do best... come at me brah! Arthur moved his leftmost boyz up 6", and shuffled his gretchin to allow the 10 man boyz to move up a bit. But that was it.
Psychic phase arthur Warpathed, then Jumped his right squad of boyz off to the far left side of the nurgle line; over by the drones. On the right side I placed my nurglings to prevent any real charges, so I guess he figured to go for the drones.
Shooting saw a ton of pistol shots go out, DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA is pretty neat! Arthur was able to plink a couple nurgling bases and do 2 wounds to a Drone.
Onto assault! Arthur charged my right forward unit of nurglings, evaporating them and using them as a springboard to get closer to me.However, this drove him far out of KFF range. on the left side, despite the reroll and +1 to charge, arthur missed his charge on the drones (missed it by 2" then rerolled and missed it by 1"). He lost 2 boyz to overwatch.
(Forgot a pic here)
Arthur controlled both of his placed objectives, and killed some nurglings. So he scored 3 points total. Orks 3-Nurgle 0
TACTICAL INSIGHT Arthur had a variety of ways to play his first turn, I knew he was going to Jump a unit, but I did not expect him to move forward and charge me; I figured he would stay in place and wait until I was closer to engage. Because he did not, he put two units of boyz in a pretty bad position. However, its only a small portion of his army.
Nurgle Turn 1
Spoiler:
Having escaped relatively unscathed, I moved the drones w/ nurgle prince to my left, all three PBCs with supports to the right, and advanced all my PB's. I rolled well for advances, and was able to create a large wall of PB's conga-lined to prevent his Tankbustas from targeting my characters. As well, I knew he was coming straight up the middle next turn with his boyz there, so I tried to wall off his movement some with the nurglings.
Psychic phase saw Virulent Blessing on the drones, Plague wind go onto the right boys (killing 6), and a smite killing 1 boy.
Shooting, I targeted all my stubbers and mortars onto Arthurs grots, but good KFF and FNP rolls only saw one die. All my flamers, however, mulched the boyz unit. My Deathsheads on my left claimed another 7 boyz; the +1 to hit and generating extra attacks from the scrivener is awesome with these guys.
Assault my Drones ate his entire boyz unit with the help of the prince. They consolidated forward.
I scored 3 Reaper points, plus killed more, held more (3 to 2), got my bonus. I also score 1 recon. The score is Orks 3-Nurgle 9
TACTICAL INSIGHT Arthurs plan was a good one, had he made it to the drones I would have been forced to use the Plaguebearers to clear the boyz most likely. However, I was amazed at how much damage Plague Drones do supported by a scrivener... it was really impressive considering they had AP 0 weapons. Killing two full boyz units was good for me. On Arthurs end, I would have used the KFF strategem to protect that right flank unit of boyz possibly, the only issue is that even had 33% of them survived, the morale test may have cleared them (I killed 6 with Psychic powers, and did 30 wounds between the PBC's).
Orks Turn 2
Spoiler:
Arthur is undeterred, and moves up his middle boyz followed by the support elements. Gretchin shuffle, and he uses Mob Up to make the middle boyz a 40 man unit (pretty damn neat if you ask me...). He drops in his Battlewagon to my right near the PBC's.
On the psychic phase he smites a couple PB's, and warpaths the middle boyz. I ask if hes gonna cast psychic spells out of the wagon, but the rules don't clarify if you can cast from an open topped vehicle. I argue that he can go ahead, but because theres no clear ruling, he choses not to.
Shooting his Boyz pistols clear another nurgling base, but onto the big guns! On the right side this is how things shook out:
* Arthur uses 3 bomb squigs on the leftmost PBC, one on the middle. He choses to shoot 3 Bustas on the left PBC, 5 on the middle, and 2 on the right.
* Left PBC makes 3 5++ saves against the squig bombs... and the tankbustas that hit fail to wound.
* Middle PBC makes its 5++ versus the squig bomb, these tankbustas do well but only get 6 wounds through.
* On the right PBC he does 1 wound.
Ouch....
Onto assault, his middle boyz make a multi into my middle PB's and nurglings; I pop the 4++ and reroll 1's DR strats. On the right, his Battlewagon uses a 3d6 charge strat, and the boarding party strat, which is neat. He makes it into two PBC's and my nurglings there, taking 1 wound to overwatch. In the middle the Boyz mulch the nurglings, and he kills 14/29 Plaguebearers. I swing back and kill around 10 or so. On the right side, between everything (which Arthur rolled badly, while I rolled about average) he puts the super wounded PBC to 3 wounds, and takes the second PBC to 9 wounds. I do another wound on return attacks.
For Morale, despite 2d6 and a reroll, I lose all but 4 PB's in the middle unit... ouch.
Arthur killed and held, and still has both of his objectives. He also scored 2 reaper points. Score is Orks 8-Nurgle 9
TACTICAL INSIGHT We actually discussed this turn post game, and Arthur made a major mistake most players do when facing Nurgle; splitting fire. He had never faced Nurgle forces before, but I told him that luck swings with Nurgle armies can be huge. He should have sunk all 4 Squig bombs into one PBC, and all the tankbustas into a second; I told him even on average dice, both would probably live, however, he would have damaged them enough that the ensuing charge would have secured at least one. I will admit, rolling 3 5++'s against the squig bombs was huge, but despite that he may have finished it off.
Nurgle Turn 2
Spoiler:
Having escaped the worst damage, and now I know where his huge threat is, I can start trying to control the board better. I move up the remaining PB's to charge his middle orks plus the battle wagon. I fall back both engaged PBC's plus nurglings; I use the Nurglings to shield the back of the PBC to minimize where Arthur can fit bodies (I'm pretty damn sure its getting charged).
Psychic phase sees Virulent Blessing go up on the middle Plaguebearers, and I heal the heavily damaged PBC back to 6 wounds. I cast Plague Wind on the middle Orks, killing another 6 or 7.
Shooting I send everything I can into the Battlewagon, but its not much and I get it down to 7 wounds.
Assault sees me make the large unit charge; the PB's account for about 13 more dead Orks, and I damage the Battlewagon to 1 wound (Str 5 + Virulent blessing is awesome). I lose a few PB's in the return attacks (I think 8 or 9) but I roll a 1 for morale, and get 5 PB's back thanks to a reroll on the respawn dice.
This is a bad turn for Nurgle, securing 1 more Recon, 1 Reaper to max it, but only getting Hold and Hold more. I also get the bonus. Orks get the Kill More bonus. Score is Orks 9-Nurgle 14
TACTICAL INSIGHT
A decent turn, but not being able to pick up a kill hurt. That 40 strong boyz mob with FNP hurts, especially with AP 0 weapons. However, I'm hanging in there, I just need to survive his Tankbustas on my flank. Next turn the Plague Drones should be back in action and I can pick apart hos backfield... I just hope he doesn't kill too much!
Orks Turn 3
Spoiler:
Arthur is in a good position; I was unable to clear his wagon to get to the juicy bits inside, and he still has around 50 boyz left and all his support.
He piles out everything from the wagon, then advances it backward. The Big Mek heals it for 3. He moves all his middle support up to be in range of the middle boyz, while his back boyz and gretchin move about.
Psyhic phase sees a lot of Smites, and he casts Da Krunch on my PB's killing a few. I fail to cancel anything, that damn +3 to casts is brutal! However, one of his Weirdboyz takes 2 wounds to perils.
Shooting his Boyz in the middle sink all their pistols into the 4 remaining PB's from the first squad, killing them all (I rolled badly :( ). He sinks all his Tankbustas into one of the fill PBC's, but the T8 is hard to deal with, and despite 7 hits only 4 wound (I saved 1) and after DR he knocks it to 7 wounds. His backline boys pistol shoot a couple nurglings.
Onto assault! On the right his Weirdboy, Painboy, 10 Boyz, and all 10 Tankbustas charge ito the PBC with 6 wounds, He attempts a charge from his Big Mek into the 7 wound PBC from 9" away to avoid flamer overwatch, but fails even with a reroll. His Warboss is in a pickle; he wants to charge my Demon prince, but the proximity to the PBC means he has to charge both and the overwatch has a high chance to waxing him. So instead, he charges the PB's on that side.
The results of the charge:
* PBC goes to 2 wounds
* Warboss + Boyz kill my PB's down to a handful left (12 or so). My return attacks kill only a few boyz, but most importantly a his warboss takes 4 wounds (I rolled a 6 to wound with Blessing, plus a few others).
Morale I roll another 1, bringing back another 5 Plaguebearers with a reroll. At this point I have 1 CP, while Arthur is spent.
Orks killed my PB's so killed one, hes also secured a second reaper point and still has his bonus and holds one. Score is Orks 13-Nurgle 14
TACTICAL INSIGHT
I was actually hoping he would wreck the PBC so I could explode it.... Ah well. Arthur did well this turn, and those Ork boyz in the middle are proving harder than anticipated. However, I think I have this pretty well in hand. The only thing I think arthur made a mistake on was how he charged my PB's; he should have gotten to within 1" then consolidated to tie up the PBC. But hindsight is 20/20 right?
Nurgle Turn 3
Spoiler:
I start this turn by falling back the plaguebearers, getting them back into coherency after being split all weird. The Drones with Scrivener move left, while my PBC's on the right stay still. My demon prince on the right flys over the warboss.
Psychic phase sees me fail blessing, and fail to heal my tank, but plague wind kills 3 Tankbustas.
Shooting I'm able to kill the Battlewagon and his Warboss, as well as a unit of gretchin between my Deathsheads and PBC shots.
Assault, my Plague Drones destroy a 10 man boyz, consolidating into his remaining squad. My right Demon Prince kills all his Tankbustas, but I choose not to consolidate because I don't want to take free wounds from the Painboy and Weirdboy. My middle Demon prince kills a handful of boys, bringing back 3 Plaguebearers to my remaining unit. He takes 3 wounds in return. He kills my PBC, and I blow it up with my last CP; this wounds my nurglings there to 3 wounds on a single base, my Prince takes 1 wound, his painboy takes 2, his weirdboy takes 3, and I kill 3 boyz.
(Sorry forgot pics)
I definitely killed more, and held more (4 objectives to 1). I secured 1 Headhunter, and 1 recon. He got one BGH point. Score is Orks 14- Nurgle 21.
Orks Turn 4
Spoiler:
Arthurs low on options, so he send his Painboy and Weirdboy to help against the drones, his Big Mek and Weirdboy to help against the prince/PB's, and everything on thr right aims at my demon prince.
Shooting he does a few wounds here and there.
Assault he takes my middle prince down to 2 wounds, but I kill his weirdboy, 10 man boyz squad, a bunch more boyz from the middle (bringing back 4 more Plaguebearers), my right Demon prince goes to 3 wounds, but kills the Weird Boy, Pain Boy, and all the boyz thanks to Plate mortal wounds and being a genuine badass.
(FORGOT PICS IMMA IDIOT!)
Arthur did not kill anything, but still holds one objective. I am able to max out Headhunter. Score is Orks 15-Nurgle 24.
Nurgle Turn 4
Spoiler:
Writings on the wall. I kill the remaining boyz, and all his HQ's besides his middle Big Mek whom whiffs on my demon prince there.
END OF GAME STATE
Orks Turn 5
Spoiler:
DONE
Nurgle Turn 5
Spoiler:
DONE
Orks Turn 6
Spoiler:
DONE
Nurgle Turn 6
Spoiler:
DONE
Post Game Thoughts
Spoiler:
Final score was Orks 15-Nurgle 30.
Arthur maxed out his reaper, scores 1 BGH point, and scored 0 headhunter. I was able to max all secondaries.
My overall impression of this game was it was a whole lot of fun, and Arthur is definitely making an effort to learn ITC and make his army tournament ready; his biggest issue (playing slow) I feel will be resolved once he gets his new codex down. For the new Orks I feel the codex is extremely strong, and it has a lot of options. Arthur was playing all Evil Sunz and getting the +1 to advance, charge, and move is insanely good, and the strats are great for vehicles (The Ramming Speed strat was hella funny). For Boyzcentric lists I feel a Wartrike would be a great addition for the advance + charge over Evil Sunz, and I told Arthur a Goff boyz unit would go a long way; had he had a large Skarboyz unit he would have chewed through my PB's much faster. As it was, he was doing around 30 wounds (on average) with 20 boyz with Warpath, and I was able to save enough to take 12 or so losses; which wasn't too bad. The -1 to hit helped a lot til I got below 20 lol...
I also have a feeling, however, that Boyz squads will be a little less powerful due to the base changes. A great example can be seen between the two LOS blocking pieces be had in the middle (about 15" apart). I was able to squeeze maybe 13 or 14 Plaguebearers into comabt, where arthur got 20+ on average; in a friendlier game like this it was no biggie, but it will see a large impact overall. Plus 30 boyz on 32mm bases is much more unwieldy... imagine going from moving 30 guardsmen to 30 spacemarines.
I can see this having a huge impact on the meta, the Ork codex has a lot of possibilities, and those Tankbustas are hella good. Definitely looking forward to a rematch with Arthur in the future!
Hope you enjoyed the rep
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2018/11/04 18:20:16
edit: nevermind there were enough points left unspent. Total 1950 by my count ATM.
BTW what's with all those 10 boy strong units? Can't mobup more than 1 of them per turn so not that useful plan and 6 is overkill even for that. Especially without klaw on nob. IF they are backfield campers grots are better for that role.
Also why klaw for stormboy nob...that's dead before it gets to hit.
Also unless codex changed bomb squigs are max 2.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/01 12:51:04
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/01 23:07:43
Subject: Re:Nurgle Demons vs Evil Sunz Green Tide - 2k ITC - May da Ork be wit you! (Game Nov 3rd)
Stormboyz might deepstrike but that's still hardly good. 5 orks die to a stiff breeze.
And 10 moving enough...Well let's see those 3x30 will be on deepstrike if he's smart as that's the way to play boyz. So you have what 6 units of 10 boyz on turn 1 there. As sub-optimal gunline will shoot easily 60 boyz a turn and that's if they have morale immunity by being big units those 6x10 will last whopping...sub 1 turn. So yeah they aren't surviving any time unless they hide(especially as they can't even be sure of T2 charge even with evil sun bonuses) and if they hide out of LOS they aren't moving anywhere. They wont' even be around when T2 happens if they are on board. 2 can go to battlewagon(though if for that purpose where's the nob weapons. 10 boyz with nothing won't make any dent in combat anyway. No extra attack for numbers and not even big choppa to dent something. 30 S4 AP0 D1 attacks just don't cut it) for some more deep striking goodyness but that still leaves 4. 4 units are never reaching combat on foot so if they are supposed to be objective campers which they look like seeing they can't be used for offense grots would be tougher for the points.
And bik meks are 100% fine.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/11/02 07:48:11
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/02 10:48:15
Subject: Nurgle Demons vs Evil Sunz Green Tide - 2k ITC - May da Ork be wit you! (Game Nov 3rd)
tneva82 wrote: Stormboyz might deepstrike but that's still hardly good. 5 orks die to a stiff breeze.
And 10 moving enough...Well let's see those 3x30 will be on deepstrike if he's smart as that's the way to play boyz. So you have what 6 units of 10 boyz on turn 1 there. As sub-optimal gunline will shoot easily 60 boyz a turn and that's if they have morale immunity by being big units those 6x10 will last whopping...sub 1 turn. So yeah they aren't surviving any time unless they hide(especially as they can't even be sure of T2 charge even with evil sun bonuses) and if they hide out of LOS they aren't moving anywhere. They wont' even be around when T2 happens if they are on board. 2 can go to battlewagon(though if for that purpose where's the nob weapons. 10 boyz with nothing won't make any dent in combat anyway. No extra attack for numbers and not even big choppa to dent something. 30 S4 AP0 D1 attacks just don't cut it) for some more deep striking goodyness but that still leaves 4. 4 units are never reaching combat on foot so if they are supposed to be objective campers which they look like seeing they can't be used for offense grots would be tougher for the points.
And bik meks are 100% fine.
While im no ork expert, it may surprise you in this matchup; but in a tac situation, i can see what your getting at. Arthurs testing this out though, so we shall see!
" For Boyzcentric lists I feel a Wartrike would be a great addition for the advance + charge over Evil Sunz,"
Why? Wartrike helps vehicles and bikes. Boyz don't benefit except from the HQ punchy help that can move around. Otherwise regular warboss helps boyz to advance and charge and has access to relic klaw for more killyness. Trike is there to get buggies and bikes into combat fast.
Result as expected.
Open topped gives ability to shoot out of vehicle. Doesn't say anything about casting spells. Thus no casting.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/05 09:24:18
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/05 18:16:39
Subject: Nurgle Demons vs Evil Sunz Green Tide - 2k ITC - May da Ork be wit you! (GAME COMPLETE)
tneva82 wrote: " For Boyzcentric lists I feel a Wartrike would be a great addition for the advance + charge over Evil Sunz,"
Why? Wartrike helps vehicles and bikes. Boyz don't benefit except from the HQ punchy help that can move around. Otherwise regular warboss helps boyz to advance and charge and has access to relic klaw for more killyness. Trike is there to get buggies and bikes into combat fast.
Result as expected.
Open topped gives ability to shoot out of vehicle. Doesn't say anything about casting spells. Thus no casting.
I meant a warboss on a bike, or normal warboss to follow the boyz. Arthur was trying to give the battlewagon hunters a cc threat, which i get. I didnt realize that the trike worked on vehicles, where the warboss is for everything else.
Also, someone pointed out the faq ruling that basically says no casting from a vehicle period; while i think thats stupid, at least we played it right.
Ok bike warboss makes more sense as that would at least help with advance+charge for infantry unlike the trike. Though evil sun boys are generally going to want to deep strike+assault so that's fairly rarely useful bonus but at least can provide some fast moving power klaw attacks(maybe relic one) which can be handy.
Trike one you want to have near bikes, battlewagons(especially deth rolla one) and some of the new buggies. Plus just do the 18+3d6 threat range.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/11/08 01:12:19
Subject: Nurgle Demons vs Evil Sunz Green Tide - 2k ITC - May da Ork be wit you! (GAME COMPLETE)
tneva82 wrote: Ok bike warboss makes more sense as that would at least help with advance+charge for infantry unlike the trike. Though evil sun boys are generally going to want to deep strike+assault so that's fairly rarely useful bonus but at least can provide some fast moving power klaw attacks(maybe relic one) which can be handy.
Trike one you want to have near bikes, battlewagons(especially deth rolla one) and some of the new buggies. Plus just do the 18+3d6 threat range.
Right, now that Battlescribes been updated, I've been able to check the rules for myself
Arthurs actually working on several different list ideas; one I gave him was a Goff Battalion with two cheap claw warbosses and 90 boyz, a Bad Moonz spearhead with 2 units of max lootas and a Gunwagon with a Shock Attack Gun mek, then a Snakebites battalion of grotz with two weirdboyz (for the FNP rolls on the Weirdboyz if they perils).
tneva82 wrote: Ok bike warboss makes more sense as that would at least help with advance+charge for infantry unlike the trike. Though evil sun boys are generally going to want to deep strike+assault so that's fairly rarely useful bonus but at least can provide some fast moving power klaw attacks(maybe relic one) which can be handy.
Trike one you want to have near bikes, battlewagons(especially deth rolla one) and some of the new buggies. Plus just do the 18+3d6 threat range.
Right, now that Battlescribes been updated, I've been able to check the rules for myself
Arthurs actually working on several different list ideas; one I gave him was a Goff Battalion with two cheap claw warbosses and 90 boyz, a Bad Moonz spearhead with 2 units of max lootas and a Gunwagon with a Shock Attack Gun mek, then a Snakebites battalion of grotz with two weirdboyz (for the FNP rolls on the Weirdboyz if they perils).
Things to keep in mind with that idea:
a) grot screen will protect ONE unit. Smart enemy will thus then blow the other loota unit if he wants lootas to die
b) you can't use the snakebite grots as grot screen for bad moon lootas if that was what you were planning. Orks are polite folks. They don't use grot of another clan as meat shield. So either you need to have some grots in the bad moon spearhead or no grot screen for lootas which makes them super vulnerable(though one can be protected by hide out of LOS+da jump+more dakka to hit on 5+ anyway with exploding shots on 5+)
