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I was looking at the new kill team commander book and I noticed... All the space marine commanders are primaris marines, none are standard. It could be nothing, could be an oversight ... Could be a push to sell those models.

Something I found interesting

I think it's just more and more proof that they the only releases Marines will see going forward are Primaris releases. It'll be a long time to complete the switch, but eventually it will happen. It'll take a decade or more, but it'll happen.

Yeah, all releases going forward wil probably be primaris or similiar GW has embraced the new scale.

 Smotejob wrote:
I was looking at the new kill team commander book and I noticed... All the space marine commanders are primaris marines, none are standard. It could be nothing, could be an oversight ... Could be a push to sell those models.

Something I found interesting

Yeah I brought this up in another thread when it was first revealed.

It looks pretty clear to me that Primaris is the future. That said, they aren't going to take the old kits off the shelves without a really good reason. So long as they sell ok, they'll be around for a long time yet.

Bare in mind it's not totally unheard of for kits to stay in production for two decades after original release!

No they aren't. Not yet anyway.

All standard marine kits are still on sale, none have been replaced by Primaris kits.

Also, in the background, normal marines are still being produced alongside Primaris marines, up to the current point in the Dark Imperium timeline.

robbienw wrote:
No they aren't. Not yet anyway.

All standard marine kits are still on sale, none have been replaced by Primaris kits.

Also, in the background, normal marines are still being produced alongside Primaris marines, up to the current point in the Dark Imperium timeline.

I'm pretty sure 'phasing out' is precisely what is happening. I'd bet money there will not be another standard sized marine produced by GW in the future. Even the Death Guard in the Dark Vengeance set were Primaris sized. So even though existing kits will still be on the shelves, and restocked for a while, the move over to the bigger size is already happening.

I'm inclined to agree that they are being phased out, but we just got some standard marines. CSM. We're about to get a new kit for them. So unless they intend to leave chaos in the dirt as 1 wound normal marines, and put SM as 'special' marines, I don't see it happening.

 Huron black heart wrote:

robbienw wrote:
No they aren't. Not yet anyway.

All standard marine kits are still on sale, none have been replaced by Primaris kits.

Also, in the background, normal marines are still being produced alongside Primaris marines, up to the current point in the Dark Imperium timeline.

I'm pretty sure 'phasing out' is precisely what is happening. I'd bet money there will not be another standard sized marine produced by GW in the future. Even the Death Guard in the Dark Vengeance set were Primaris sized. So even though existing kits will still be on the shelves, and restocked for a while, the move over to the bigger size is already happening.

No. For phasing out to begin, something has to actually disappear; no standard marine kits have done as yet, 15 months after primaris appeared.

The Chosen CSM in Dark Vengeance aren't Primaris sized and they aren't Death Guard. They are big though, same size as deathwatch, thousand sons, etc.

Also, several standard marines have been produced by GW and FW in the time since the Primaris have been released, so you are wrong there as well. Specifically we have had from GW series 1 and 2 of the Space Marine Heroes, and from FW we have had Sirae Karagon and Kasan Sabius, and Gabriel Angelos.

You know how they have design rules like:
"No rules for models we don't sell specific kits for"?

The inclusion of so many Primaris options but no non-Primaris, despite the clear design space for them, strongly suggests to me that someone above the rules team has given the direction that no additional support shall be given to non-Primaris Marines. In keeping with their clear direction to boost Primaris sales.

We can only hope the MarkII THunderwarriors go away quick.

robbienw wrote:

 Huron black heart wrote:

robbienw wrote:
No they aren't. Not yet anyway.

All standard marine kits are still on sale, none have been replaced by Primaris kits.

Also, in the background, normal marines are still being produced alongside Primaris marines, up to the current point in the Dark Imperium timeline.

I'm pretty sure 'phasing out' is precisely what is happening. I'd bet money there will not be another standard sized marine produced by GW in the future. Even the Death Guard in the Dark Vengeance set were Primaris sized. So even though existing kits will still be on the shelves, and restocked for a while, the move over to the bigger size is already happening.

No. For phasing out to begin, something has to actually disappear; no standard marine kits have done as yet, 15 months after primaris appeared.

The Chosen CSM in Dark Vengeance aren't Primaris sized and they aren't Death Guard. They are big though, same size as deathwatch, thousand sons, etc.

Also, several standard marines have been produced by GW and FW in the time since the Primaris have been released, so you are wrong there as well. Specifically we have had from GW series 1 and 2 of the Space Marine Heroes, and from FW we have had Sirae Karagon and Kasan Sabius, and Gabriel Angelos.

Pretty sure they meant Dark Imperium...

Those are all special cases though. Forgeworld is their own thing, and Heroes are a specially licensed product not actually sold or produced by GW.

Until we actually see something like a new Tactical Squad box that is pretty inconclusive.

Currently there's enough space on the shelves for both, so we will see what happens when we get Primaris Wave 2 and what that squeeze does. If we see many old kits go online only, that's phasing right there.

All releases going forward will be primaris*

*except the latest marine release which is not primaris

Ah right yes special cases.

"GW will never make normal marines again now primaris are here"

"That's wrong, both GW and FW have made some <examples given>"

"Ah but those don't count because reasons, moving goalposts, I only meant stuff release on a shelf in a GW, etc"



Heroes are both produced and sold by GW, you are wrong there. They were designed by the main studio miniature designers. They were produced in Nottingham at the main GW factory. They were sold by GW stores in Japan, and will be sold by GW stores worldwide when they are released this Saturday...

Forgeworld is a division of GW, and they have produced standard marine stuff since primaris arrived...

Question: does anyone have any info to suggest Primaris are actually outselling regular Marines? I've heard from a few FLGS owners that Primaris are unpopular except with new players.

Small sample size, nothing to draw inferences from. But I would be interested in knowing about other people's experiences.

In my area, regular marines are more popular except for one guy who plays Ultramarines and is "that gut" to infinity and beyond.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Question: does anyone have any info to suggest Primaris are actually outselling regular Marines? I've heard from a few FLGS owners that Primaris are unpopular except with new players.

Small sample size, nothing to draw inferences from. But I would be interested in knowing about other people's experiences.

Unpopular for play, or for buying? My concern is that while the primaris aren't great in the game, neither are regular marines, with a very few exceptions. And there are so many of them in circulation, buying new ones seems unnecessary.

 vaklor4 wrote:
In my area, regular marines are more popular except for one guy who plays Ultramarines and is "that gut" to infinity and beyond.

Why does playing primaris marines make you "that guy"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Question: does anyone have any info to suggest Primaris are actually outselling regular Marines? I've heard from a few FLGS owners that Primaris are unpopular except with new players.

Small sample size, nothing to draw inferences from. But I would be interested in knowing about other people's experiences.

Well...most "old players" aren't buying marines stuff - they have tons of marines. With how bad marines play on the table plus with new players being interested in the much better looking primaris. I have no idea how secondis marines could outsell primaris.

I can imagine Primaris being more popular with newer players, and less popular with older or existing players. Blanket statement, but I can easily see how this is true. What really matters is how well the Primaris range performs as to whether they'll return to making more regular kits for the standard space marines.

robbienw wrote:
Ah right yes special cases.

"GW will never make normal marines again now primaris are here"

"That's wrong, both GW and FW have made some <examples given>"

"Ah but those don't count because reasons, moving goalposts, I only meant stuff release on a shelf in a GW, etc"



Heroes are both produced and sold by GW, you are wrong there. They were designed by the main studio miniature designers. They were produced in Nottingham at the main GW factory. They were sold by GW stores in Japan, and will be sold by GW stores worldwide when they are released this Saturday...

Forgeworld is a division of GW, and they have produced standard marine stuff since primaris arrived...

They clearly are exceptional cases though. I don't see how you can say otherwise, even if I was incorrect about the production.

Until we get a proper 40k boxed set in plastic with new oldscale sculpts the point stands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Darsath wrote:
I can imagine Primaris being more popular with newer players, and less popular with older or existing players. Blanket statement, but I can easily see how this is true. What really matters is how well the Primaris range performs as to whether they'll return to making more regular kits for the standard space marines.

Primaris players are buying their armies from scratch, over the last year.

Oldscale players, for the most part, are making some additions to an existing force.

'Popularity' in the sense of what people prefer isn't really point here. Primaris definitely have an advantage in terms of what people are actively buying though.

ATM I am mostly buying non primaris. I accept that primaris seems cool but, I prefeer to use tactical,scouts and devastators for playing. They simply haves more options for weapons, and die for a D2 weapon the same tan primaris.

I really use primaris as suport for my basic marines and for take fire doing my straight marines a longer life.

 Stux wrote:

robbienw wrote:
Ah right yes special cases.

"GW will never make normal marines again now primaris are here"

"That's wrong, both GW and FW have made some <examples given>"

"Ah but those don't count because reasons, moving goalposts, I only meant stuff release on a shelf in a GW, etc"



Heroes are both produced and sold by GW, you are wrong there. They were designed by the main studio miniature designers. They were produced in Nottingham at the main GW factory. They were sold by GW stores in Japan, and will be sold by GW stores worldwide when they are released this Saturday...

Forgeworld is a division of GW, and they have produced standard marine stuff since primaris arrived...

They clearly are exceptional cases though. I don't see how you can say otherwise, even if I was incorrect about the production.

Until we get a proper 40k boxed set in plastic with new oldscale sculpts the point stands.

Exceptional cases that, if they were absent, would actually help your case. But, since there is new marine support happening RIGHT NOW, it makes your point appear to be mostly pretense.

You weren't very clear in what you meant by 'phased out' right from the beginning. It took several posts to tease out that you were actually trying to say, deep beneath the alarmist messaging. It's still not even clear what you mean. Your point has shifted since the initial post, and now you're saying that you believe standard marines are being phased out because they have not yet received a new model kit since Primaris launched. That's specious reasoning, and you very clearly altered the premise of your point midway through the conversation so you could exclude all of the examples of times vanilla marines have received support from GW, which I admit you might have done without malicious intent.

The reason your point isn't very persuasive is because it applies to every other army as well. Just because a new model kit (with whatever special qualifiers you want to apply to it) for vanilla marines has not been announced or released does not in any way prove anything except that a new model kit for vanilla marines has not been announced or released. It does not hint at a larger strategy. It does not provide insight into the future. It does not provide enough supporting evidence to state, definitively, that marines are (or, to be fair, aren't) being phased out. The fact that there has been ongoing support, however 'exceptional' you may feel they are, suggests quite the opposite. Vanilla marines are alive and well.

Now - we can wildly speculate about what the future will hold, which is worth if it only for the fun, but it doesn't 'prove' anything.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
In my area, regular marines are more popular except for one guy who plays Ultramarines and is "that gut" to infinity and beyond.

Why does playing primaris marines make you "that guy"

You have seen Toy Story, right? As the plot of this is what he's referencing there.

Bharring wrote:
You know how they have design rules like:
"No rules for models we don't sell specific kits for"?

The inclusion of so many Primaris options but no non-Primaris, despite the clear design space for them, strongly suggests to me that someone above the rules team has given the direction that no additional support shall be given to non-Primaris Marines. In keeping with their clear direction to boost Primaris sales.

how are marine factions that don't have access to primaris marines suppose to be updated then? If GW doesn't fix or give new rules to stuff without new models, and those factions don't have primaris, then it would mean GW is never going to update them right?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
In my area, regular marines are more popular except for one guy who plays Ultramarines and is "that gut" to infinity and beyond.

Why does playing primaris marines make you "that guy"

You have seen Toy Story, right? As the plot of this is what he's referencing there.

I just took it as saying he is "that guy" TO THE MAX - fully understanding the Buzz Lightyear reference.

What I don't understand the significance to Ultramarine or Primaris? It really seems to imply that using primaris makes you "that guy".

Lemondish wrote:

 Stux wrote:

robbienw wrote:
Ah right yes special cases.

"GW will never make normal marines again now primaris are here"

"That's wrong, both GW and FW have made some <examples given>"

"Ah but those don't count because reasons, moving goalposts, I only meant stuff release on a shelf in a GW, etc"



Heroes are both produced and sold by GW, you are wrong there. They were designed by the main studio miniature designers. They were produced in Nottingham at the main GW factory. They were sold by GW stores in Japan, and will be sold by GW stores worldwide when they are released this Saturday...

Forgeworld is a division of GW, and they have produced standard marine stuff since primaris arrived...

They clearly are exceptional cases though. I don't see how you can say otherwise, even if I was incorrect about the production.

Until we get a proper 40k boxed set in plastic with new oldscale sculpts the point stands.

Exceptional cases that, if they were absent, would actually help your case. But, since there is new marine support happening RIGHT NOW, it makes your point appear to be mostly pretense.

You weren't very clear in what you meant by 'phased out' right from the beginning. It took several posts to tease out that you were actually trying to say, deep beneath the alarmist messaging. It's still not even clear what you mean. Your point has shifted since the initial post, and now you're saying that you believe standard marines are being phased out because they have not yet received a new model kit since Primaris launched. That's specious reasoning, and you very clearly altered the premise of your point midway through the conversation so you could exclude all of the examples of times vanilla marines have received support from GW, which I admit you might have done without malicious intent.

The reason your point isn't very persuasive is because it applies to every other army as well. Just because a new model kit (with whatever special qualifiers you want to apply to it) for vanilla marines has not been announced or released does not in any way prove anything except that a new model kit for vanilla marines has not been announced or released. It does not hint at a larger strategy. It does not provide insight into the future. It does not provide enough supporting evidence to state, definitively, that marines are (or, to be fair, aren't) being phased out. The fact that there has been ongoing support, however 'exceptional' you may feel they are, suggests quite the opposite. Vanilla marines are alive and well.

Now - we can wildly speculate about what the future will hold, which is worth if it only for the fun, but it doesn't 'prove' anything.

I never claimed to prove anything, and my position has not changed. I find your post very curious for that reason!

Here's what I said:

"It looks pretty clear to me that Primaris is the future".

I also stated that I expected oldscale marines to stay on sale for years, possibly decades.

I still stand by none of your examples being standard GW kits though. If that isn't good enough for you, fine.

Karol wrote:

Bharring wrote:
You know how they have design rules like:
"No rules for models we don't sell specific kits for"?

The inclusion of so many Primaris options but no non-Primaris, despite the clear design space for them, strongly suggests to me that someone above the rules team has given the direction that no additional support shall be given to non-Primaris Marines. In keeping with their clear direction to boost Primaris sales.

how are marine factions that don't have access to primaris marines suppose to be updated then? If GW doesn't fix or give new rules to stuff without new models, and those factions don't have primaris, then it would mean GW is never going to update them right?

If they’re still selling the models you’ll get rules. I doubt GK are going to get the chop, even if they are utter gak right now.

phillv85 wrote:

Karol wrote:

Bharring wrote:
You know how they have design rules like:
"No rules for models we don't sell specific kits for"?

The inclusion of so many Primaris options but no non-Primaris, despite the clear design space for them, strongly suggests to me that someone above the rules team has given the direction that no additional support shall be given to non-Primaris Marines. In keeping with their clear direction to boost Primaris sales.

how are marine factions that don't have access to primaris marines suppose to be updated then? If GW doesn't fix or give new rules to stuff without new models, and those factions don't have primaris, then it would mean GW is never going to update them right?

If they’re still selling the models you’ll get rules. I doubt GK are going to get the chop, even if they are utter gak right now.

There is no reason why GK would not have primaris marines themselves. IMO - it's a huge missed opportunity.

 Xenomancers wrote:

phillv85 wrote:

Karol wrote:

Bharring wrote:
You know how they have design rules like:
"No rules for models we don't sell specific kits for"?

The inclusion of so many Primaris options but no non-Primaris, despite the clear design space for them, strongly suggests to me that someone above the rules team has given the direction that no additional support shall be given to non-Primaris Marines. In keeping with their clear direction to boost Primaris sales.

how are marine factions that don't have access to primaris marines suppose to be updated then? If GW doesn't fix or give new rules to stuff without new models, and those factions don't have primaris, then it would mean GW is never going to update them right?

If they’re still selling the models you’ll get rules. I doubt GK are going to get the chop, even if they are utter gak right now.

There is no reason why GK would not have primaris marines themselves. IMO - it's a huge missed opportunity.

I'm certain they're coming. I assume they just didn't have the studio time to dedicate to GK specific Primaris just yet.

They will probably update the kits 100% sure of it. looking at the new CSM in black fortress and even the space marine heros line up they are trying to update the models scale now that they have the 32mm bases. im 100% on board with this.

i do not know if they will 100% out old space marines rules wise though. i highly doubt it for decent amount of time. not until another end times level fluff shift.

phillv85 766317 10218633 wrote:

If they’re still selling the models you’ll get rules. I doubt GK are going to get the chop, even if they are utter gak right now.

The gak part is the important part. A codex has to have something good in it to be at least a bit fun to play. I would love to see most of the units people call bad in GK. Doesn't have to be something good like scouts, but naked tacticals, no specials, no possible upgrades, no psyker rules, nothing just cheap troops to run paladins.

I'm certain they're coming. I assume they just didn't have the studio time to dedicate to GK specific Primaris just yet.

They didn't make specific BA, SW or DA primaris they just added them in to those armies through an FAQ, even before those got a codex. GW could have done the same for GK, but through 8th, they were steadily cutting of any over laping rules between GK and other marines. That is why I wonder if they are going to added them. Would be nice if they did. Maybe the drop troop plasma dudes too. Those would be nice too.