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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Wheres that amazing thread on Abaddon by ADB when you need it?

Basically, it comes down to this:

Horus = tool of the Chaos Gods
Chaos Gods = tool for Abaddons Revenge.

Abaddon has always been offered ascension but knows that it would weaken his true purpose. The complete destruction of mankind and humanity. He hates the chaos gods and only uses them because he has no choice at this point. He sees Horus as weak and a fool because he actually gave his soul to the gods for power. But in doing so forfeited his own will and inevitably his ultimate goal. We know this because the Gods abandoned him in his greatest moment right before he was going to kill the Emperor, and he himself was the one that died. They never wanted Horus to win, they only wanted humanity to be thrown into eternal conflict and the Emperor dead because he (like Abaddon) defied their will and was threatening to weaken them by creating a secular empire and using the webway for transportation instead of the warp.

The Chaos gods only want eternal war and chaos because it feeds them.

If Abaddon wins, he exterminates all life, and therefore exterminates the Chaos gods because they cannot exist without mortal suffering and emotion.

He is actually the opposite of a slave to the dark gods, he controls them in his own way by playing them off one another and understanding that not giving into them makes them desire his fealty even more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2013/08/22/lets-talk-about-abaddon/

Read this, it explains everything.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/07 01:30:13


 
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






When was he offered daemonhood? I've already debunked the daemonhood thing, the chaos gods would not want him to have daemonhood, they want a general that can live and lead in the materium so if he was a puppet, he wouldn't be turning into a daemon prince.

Who says Abaddon wants to exterminate all life?


Ok, maybe not exterminate all life, but It says in pretty much every single entry in any book somehow relating to Abaddon that the gods have offered him Daemonhood at every turn and he has rejected it.

did you read the ADB link?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/07 03:10:40


 
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






This entry is directly from GW headquarters. From the office of the loremaster:

So, here. These aren’t my words – they’re from The Archive to End All Archives. The crowning jewel of said archive, as it happens. It aligns with the general consensus on Abaddon, but how it was phrased just resonated with me like nothing else quite had before.

Hope you find it as intriguing and inspiring as I do

“Horus was weak. Horus was a fool.”

It sums up Abaddon. Horus allowed himself to be used by Chaos – Horus is the Chaos Powers’ dupe to get back at the Emperor. Abaddon will never let this happen. He will never allow himself to be a Pawn of Chaos. Simply surviving without choosing one as a patron is a massive achievement. Never succumbing to the temptation of becoming a daemon prince is a second. Seriously, Abaddon is so driven he’d rather battle and scrape and bite and claw his way up to achieve his goals on his own terms than achieve immortality and virtually limitless power, because the alternative is to open the slightest chink in his independence that the Chaos Gods will exploit.

If Horus was the vessel that all of the Gods poured their power into (right up until they abandoned him at the end), then Abbadon has become the vessel that the gods want to have for themselves but haven’t been able to claim. They’ve all offered him a chance to be their regent, to rule in their name, and he has turned them all down, playing them off each other. He is the New Emperor in a way that Horus never was or would have been. Abaddon has, through sheer force of will and dominance, made himself more than a pawn, he has made himself kingmaker. If he were to choose one god to serve, if he dedicated the Black Legion to a single power in his name, that God would crush his rivals almost to the point of victory.

Almost.

Because Chaos can never win against itself, of course, and Abaddon has seen the truth of this. He knows that Chaos is a process, a state, not a goal, and the moment anyone surrenders to the journey and forgets the destination is the moment their worldly ambitions are forgotten and their spirit becomes simply a part of the Chaos Powers. Abaddon is utterly relentless in his pursuit of what he wants – whatever that may actually be. Revenge on the Emperor? Too petty. Vengeance for Horus? Too sentimental. Power? Yes. What kind of power? Mortal power. He could have all the immortal power he can handle if he but asks for it, but that is not what drives him. He sees the Primarchs disappear, fade, die or simply not care anymore and he understands that only a man can really rule other men. Abaddon doesn’t want to destroy the Imperium, he wants to succeed where Horus failed. He wants to be Emperor and have Mankind bow beneath his rule.

His rule, not the rule of the Chaos gods.

Abaddon has not failed because he is wilful or incompetent. He has mustered the greatest armies since the Heresy and unleashed them upon the material universe. He has amassed power and influence within the Eye of Terror greater than any primarch. He has done this through feat of arms and personality, but the one thing he can never truly do, because it is anathema to Chaos, is truly unite the ruinous powers. They can only come together in dominance, not subservience. Whenever Abaddon has been on the brink of victory his backers break ranks, seeking to gain some last-minute short-term advantage.

Ultimately, a win for Abaddon is a loss for Chaos. If he becomes Emperor he has everything he desires and they can hold nothing over him. And so they continue to dangle the carrot, continue to be his patrons, giving him daemonic power and servants, ordering their mortal representatives to debase themselves and serve his will, all in the hope of snatching the final victory of Abaddon for themselves.

It is the Office Politics of Hell. Literally… One of the beliefs surrounding Satan in many Christian theologies is that his defiance of God was his refusal to bow to Man when they were created. In refusing to submit to the rule of mortals, Abaddon carries this analogy perfectly – the Legiones Astartes were created by a god and were never meant to be corralled and curtailed by purely mortal ambitions. As Angels they have a higher purpose – and once had a higher regard in the eyes of their creator, who shunned them.

Quite how much of this Abaddon realises when Horus fails and how much he learns over the next ten thousand years (or three days, depending on warp time) is narratively elastic…

Bearing in mind the warp/ real interface, being the bearer of the Mark of Chaos Ascendant is not just having a shiny star of Chaos imprinted in one’s forehead. It is, when the Chaos gods are bestowing their blessing/ energy, to be the centre of a blazing star, to be surrounded by a coil of ever-replenshing Chaos energy, heralded by choirs of daemons of all powers, suffused with the essence of the four great Chaos Gods. To each worshipper and follower he appears different (much like the Emperor…). He is a schemer, a warrior, a self-centred iconoclast and a survivor.

But there are the times, after the effort, the glory, of being the conduit of so much power, when he teeters on the precipice of doubt, madness and physical corruption. He stands between mortals and immortals, his ambitions far beyond the understanding of the first, yet incomprehensibly alien to the second; constantly he is failed by the inherent weaknesses of both.

His enemies circle, material and immaterial, sensing potential weakness. His allies start to disappear. For a while the Chaos Powers are disinterested, choosing to split, becoming self-serving once more, raising up their champions, sometimes alone, sometimes together, hoping that these mortals will rival Abaddon. Yet they never do.

And he wonders if it is vanity. He wonders if he is deserving. He wonders if what he wants is possible.

And then the Powers come back, trying once more to win him to their cause, taunting, threatening, cajoling and coercing Abaddon to become theirs and theirs alone. And he listens, and he wonders. And always, from somewhere deep in his soul, from the darkest yet strongest place in his mind, the answer comes back, hesitant but growing louder with every beat of his twin hearts.

Yes.

Yes, one day it will all be yours.

And he starts the struggle again. The Long War continues.

This is definitive proof that Abaddon is not, nor will ever be a slave to Chaos.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/07 03:17:20


 
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Are you completely ignoring the entire piece I just posted about Abaddon directly from GW loremasters? That is the source. It is the definitive character piece on Abaddon.

This piece was written by GW writers.

None of this is my opinion. This is canon.

It sums up Abaddon. Horus allowed himself to be used by Chaos – Horus is the Chaos Powers’ dupe to get back at the Emperor. Abaddon will never let this happen. He will never allow himself to be a Pawn of Chaos. Simply surviving without choosing one as a patron is a massive achievement. Never succumbing to the temptation of becoming a daemon prince is a second.


Abbadon has become the vessel that the gods want to have for themselves but haven’t been able to claim. They’ve all offered him a chance to be their regent, to rule in their name, and he has turned them all down, playing them off each other.


The gods have offered him the chance to be their champion and ascend like the other primarchs but has turned them down.

Abaddon is so driven he’d rather battle and scrape and bite and claw his way up to achieve his goals on his own terms than achieve immortality and virtually limitless power, because the alternative is to open the slightest chink in his independence that the Chaos Gods will exploit.


This entire piece proves that he is not at all a slave to chaos.

I don't know what else you want. There is absolutely no evidence to prove that Abaddon is a slave to the chaos gods, let alone more of a slave than Horus.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/07 04:18:37


 
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






I'm not reading a whole thread to look at your evidence, you need to post your evidence here, I'm not sifting through a whole thread for it.

Again no evidence, you are just stating your opinion as fact. I stated my argument as my opinion, but if you say this is 'definitive proof' you have to actually have proof. None of what you said is even convincing as an opinion rather than proof. Abaddon could be acting like he has free will, doesn't mean he has free will. Even if the God offered him daemonhood (still need to show evidence of that) it could be an empty gesture, they could know that he wouldn't take it, or they could be manipulating his actions so he doesn't take it but makes him think that he refused.

Same with 'never allowing himself to be a pawn' yeah he can still think that or act in that way and still be a pawn, not evidence at all.

Haven't been able to claim. You still need to give a source that he has been offered daemonhood.

Abaddon is determined not to be a slave, but that means nothing. To prove your argument definitively, you need to have a source in the lore which says 'the gods cannot control Abaddon and is independent of their will' or something to that effect. Just giving opinions isn't fact.


Ok, this is going to be my last post on this thread since it is now frustrating the hell out of me and I am quickly losing my patience.

It would be wise in the future, that when you creating a post asking a question that you be open to other people’s anawers. Too bad you don’t have the time to simply read a few short excerpts from my actual proof that I posted in here like 3 times. I even cut out and quoted the major points that prove that your opinion of abaddon is 100% flawed and is in no way accurate to the character Gw is trying to represent.

The source I gave you is GW and yet somehow you are saying that this is not proof, and that your opinion (not GW I might add) is the actual correct interpretation of Abaddon. I fail to see how you could read that paragraph and with a straight face tell me I am wrong and I have no evidence. You don’t work for the Trump administration by any chance do you?

Sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes when you don’t want to see the truth of something is what children do, being stubborn over a game of toy solidiers is unnecessary. Please don’t post if you are unwilling to engage in proper discussion.
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Cheers to anyone who found the link regarding Abaddon as enlightening as I had the first time I read it.

I think Abaddon is a much more nuanced character than people give him credit for, and by extension tend to joke about what a failure he is.

He is absolutely, one of the most interesting characters in the 40K universe.
 
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