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Made in be
Confident Halberdier





Antwerp

Hi everyone. I'm fairly new to Bolt Action, having played only 4 or 5 games. I'd like some feedback on a (almost) fully mounted german list. I've used the generic german army list. I've got some questions first.

If I wanted to take a panzerschreck or flamethrower team would they need a transport of their own, or could I squeeze them into a hanomag? A hanomag has capacity of 12, while a full squad of grenadiers is 10. So I would think they can share the transport? Same question goes for a medic. I have never used transports in my games before, how does a fully mechanised army play? I'm aware of the threat of enemy units close to an unguarded transport though.

Here's the list.

Spoiler:
*1st LT (vet)
+2 extra vets

*medic

*3 regular grenadier squads of 10 dudes
1 submachine gun
2 assault rifles
1lmg
1 panzerfaust

*Nebelwerfer

*Marder III (regular)

*3 inexperienced hanomags (one for each grenadier squads)
no upgrades

* inexperienced schwimmwagen (for the command squad)



This comes to a total of 953 points, so i have some points left to puzzle with. I know the grenadier squads look a bit too 'all rounder' but I have taken them like this in every game. Seems to work out fine for me.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance guys.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/07 21:36:50


'The whole art of war consists in getting at what is on the other side of the hill.' -- The Duke of Wellington

My hobby log: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/770007.page 
   
Made in us
Sergeant





Multiple squads can ride in the transports together, up to its capacity.

If you want to mix weapons in squads it should not be too much of a detriment, but not optimized. I would bring more fausts if you can.

Upgrading your transports to regular would be a good idea. Otherwise their MMG's are at -1 to hit, they will fail order tests more readily, and they are less likely to come on from reserves. I would also consider adding the second MMG to your Hanomags. 12 dice of fire support for your grenadiers per turn is pretty awesome. I wish I had it for my Soviet trucks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this?:

http://boltaction.easyarmy.com/BAPrint.aspx?list=d2fe9746-5a1b-4762-bcc6-0fcca11f1475


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was not able to add in the extra MMG's at 1000 points. Pulling off fully mechanized all in Hanomags at 1k is kind of hard. This style of list would really shine at 1250

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/08 14:44:50


 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight






Yendor

I will fully admit that the transport rules in Bolt Action are a little wonky, especially if you are more familiar with other systems. But I'll summarize them to the best of my ability so you know what to look out for.

Transport Capacity, you can carry as many models as you can. there is no limit to one squad per transport. Keep in mind that any pins on the vehicle transfer to the squads being transported.

Pins: Most transports are open topped, so you will be taking pins from small arms fire. Also any pins you take transfer to the passengers. So if you have a Grenadier Squad and a Flamethrower Team in your Hanomag, and the Hanomag gets shot at by an LMG. You will take a pin on each of the transport, and one on each of the squads inside.

Pocket Dimension. Any units in your transport are whisked away into a pocket dimension while embarked on the transport. This means that while transported you cannot be targeted, you cannot benefit from a Lieutenant's 'Snap Too!' and you cannot benefit from a Lieutenant's leadership buff. The only exceptions to this rule are a transported Lieutenant can confer his leadership buff to the vehicle he is in ONLY. And the pinning thing above.

Dismounting: You can dismount the Transport as long as it didn't 'Run'. So you can move closer and disembark which is very strong on flamers. Remember what I said about 'Snap Too' though. A Lieutenant cannot use 'Snap Too!' to chain activate a Hanomag and the transported Flamer team (pocket dimension thing). So if you make a big play and advance your Hanomag, you need to wait until you pull your next order dice fair and square before you can activate the flamer. You also cannot assault on the turn you disembark. So don't get any ideas about charging a big squad of SMGs (although nothing is stopping you from lighting em with with point blank fire)

Boarding: Your transport cannot have moved, and cannot move on a turn you want to embark a unit. This rule makes it much much much easier to get off a transport, and a really slow and arduous process to get on. Rapid redeployment is difficult in BA.

Assaults: any transported squads will dismount and engage automatically if the transport gets charged. Your biggest squad iirc is chosen to disembark and meets chargers. This can be a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, a squad of transported veterans with SMGs will crush most things that would bully your tank. But it can be painful if your flamer team is forced to disembark into combat. If your transport is charged, and the attackers inflict at least a glancing hit, it is automatically destroyed, as with all open topped vehicles.

Shooting: Your Hanomag can only fire 1 gun on its own. The game rules say that you have the crew to drive and man one weapon. Any additional guns can be fired by units embarked at their veterancy level. So once you've dislodged your passengers you can only shoot one MMG even if you've bought two.

Destruction: If your Hanomag is killed, the passengers will take some damage when they get out, and they are immediately forced 'down'. This can be pretty punishing, especially if you were counting on that unit disembarking and doing something important!

Because Bolt Action Makes no sense at all: If at the end of a turn the closest model to an empty transport (excluding other empty transports) isn't friendly... the transport is automatically destroyed. No it doesn't matter that you are decked out with 2 MMGs and are effectively a light tank. Destroyed. So be careful and don't let the enemy use an end of turn order dice to do something cheeky like run a squad inbetween two empty transports of yours and kill them both at the end of the turn.

Anyway, once you start getting used to Bolt Action's vehicle rules they start making more sense. BA really plays better with primarily infantry anyway... the game starts getting weird when there are a lot of vehicles involved.



This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/11/14 20:43:40


Xom finds this thread hilarious!

My 5th Edition Eldar Tactica (not updated for 6th, historical purposes only) Walking the Path of the Eldar 
   
Made in us
Sergeant





Regarding a couple of the points addressed above:

Dismounting: This is why squad integrated support weapons shine when transported. My assault engineers with flamethrower can advance 12" in their truck, hop out, then advance 6" and spray firey lead death at point blank. That is a 24" threat on turn one. It is 36" if they have access to a road. Creative use of your pivot can also provide your troops with line of sight blocking cover. This gives you an option for a poor man's Down since you have to use a Run or Advance order to get out of your transport.

Boarding: This is tricky, and makes trying to use the same truck for multiple squads in a given game difficult. The best solution is to either use the trucks as mobile fire support (preferably directly behind your front line), or to run them immediately back on turn two to pick up another squad. Think of that squad as a late turn enemy backfield objective grabber, or a unit intended to capitalize on a breakthrough.

Assaults: This will rarely happen with trucks and other softskins because the enemy is usually going to be more interested in just pumping a bunch of bullets into you, hoping for a 6 to Pen. The scenario akaean describes would suck, and I would avoid having small units alone in a transport. I am using my trucks to transport large squads, so this is less of an issue for me. I have been considering Jeeps with small teams, but for the most part these would be targeted at specific targets and likely dismounted turn 1.

Shooting: Your Hanomag can only shoot one weapon when it is empty, but the crew do not have to use a fire dice to fire the second weapon. You can not, in fact, issue a fire order to a unit that is mounted in a transport. This means that you can advance your Hanomag, fire both weapons, advance troops, and then fire their weapons on two order dice. The only thing that sucks about the Hanomag is that the second weapon covers back arc, but this does give you the opportunity to put pins on two different units. Opportunities to use both weapons can be increased by creative use of your pivot.

Destruction: This rule is important to remember when you are positioning transports with troops for grabbing objectives. Make sure that if the transport gets popped you will be able to disembark the troops within the prescribed range of the objective. In this particular circumstance, having them go Down is not terrible.

Because BA Makes No Sense At All: Thankfully, MMG's have great range. Having transports that have already dropped off their troops hang in mid field providing mobile fire support is a very viable option. This rule is dumb, but I also understand why they put it in place. Otherwise, softskins start to become like really fast light tanks, and at half the cost. I absolutely agree that these rules should not apply to APC's like the Hanomag which were designed to provide close support to troops in the field.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/14 20:33:35


 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight






Yendor

Twinkle Starchild wrote:
Regarding a couple of the points addressed above:

Assaults: This will rarely happen with trucks and other softskins because the enemy is usually going to be more interested in just pumping a bunch of bullets into you, hoping for a 6 to Pen. The scenario akaean describes would suck, and I would avoid having small units alone in a transport. I am using my trucks to transport large squads, so this is less of an issue for me. I have been considering Jeeps with small teams, but for the most part these would be targeted at specific targets and likely dismounted turn 1.



I definitely agree with you that opponents, and myself included, typically try to destroy a softskin with small arms fire as opposed to assaulting it. But I think this is largely due to how well hidden this particular rule is and that not many players know about it.

Lets say you are playing vs Russians, and a Jeep with a Flamer Team in it pulls up in front of your veteran Waffen SS squad with 2 x LMGs (that squad everybody complains about except the Russians who are doing the same thing with their Guards squads ). Russians are praying for the next dice so they can hop out and burn you, but you get lucky and pull the dice instead.

What do you do? Even if you have a puma or a panzer with a good shot, its risky to take because a miss gives the Russians another chance to pull that critical order dice and advance the flamer team. Firing a wall of lead from the Veterans also has a good chance to wipe out the jeep (even more so if they have a faust too), but even then they could fail. Far less crazy things have happened. However, assaulting the Jeep, with anything within 12 inches of it really, has a very good chance of wiping out the flamer team, and leaving the empty jeep with your units closest. Effectively neutralizing both threats, with the highest chance of success and only committing one order dice. This goes doubly so when the transport has an armor value, like a Hanomag or those weird Russian Komsomolets Artillery Tractors, at AV 7 those are slightly tougher to destroy and fewer things can wipe them out. An assault in that situation is by far the best choice. But if you don't know an assault forces disembark of passengers you wouldn't think to do it, because a squad of 7 veterans is almost completely unlikely to do anything to an advancing vehicle since they hit it on 6s.

Obviously you wouldn't assault a vehicle carrying a big squad of Veteran Engineers toting a healthy supply of SMGs / Assault Rifles- because veteran tough fighters are pretty capable in cqc. But a flamer team? Absolutely. A squad of regulars if you have a decent sized squad of veterans nearby? Absolutely. Its a good trick to keep in mind, and you can play mindgames with opposing transports by holding off on activating the squad you think they want to target.


Xom finds this thread hilarious!

My 5th Edition Eldar Tactica (not updated for 6th, historical purposes only) Walking the Path of the Eldar 
   
Made in us
Sergeant





I would argue that our Guards squads with 2 LMG's are even better because you aren't paying a Vet premium for something designed to be a midfield or backline unit! The Germans do get the option for AR's, though...

As for the rest, this is some great analysis. I would never rely on the Jeep FT team to run up on a fresh unit. They are much better as a mop up crew. Wait until the target just survives an assault, or a bunch of shooting, preferably with a bunch of pins on them already. Then send the FT Jeep up to finish the job. 24" threat range with two pivots is a good bit of maneuverability.

I have also been having a very productive conversation with some folks on the r\boltaction subreddit about transport tactics. The BA internet community is great, and this has all been very helpful for me!










Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be clear, the 24" = 12" Jeep Advance + 6" FT Advance + 6" FT range

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/15 14:52:17


 
   
 
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