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So my local community (a decent size group made up of many 40k vets) has been in a bit of a slump lately. A lot of the vets have been losing interest in the game. While all were very excited about 8th edition's initial release, many are upset with how it has unfolded over the past year and a half. Some feel that future releases will eventually bring back their faded enthusiasm, while others feel that 8th edition caters more towards new players and building an entirely new community, virtually ending the game for veteran players.

As a fairly new player myself, having started at the end of 7th edition, I feel that I don't really have a say in such a discussion. I am interested, however, in how gaming communities throughout the world have changed with 8th edition. Has the influx in new players been followed by a decline in the old? Has the overall streamlining affected your interest, for better or worse? What changes have pushed you or your fellow gamers away from the game? Also, if you have experience playing in different parts of the world, what were the differences between those gaming communities?

The game's picked up the pace in our region for sure. Largely, I'd call it a major success. Only issue right now is that everyone sees just how strong Knights are and they figure they need to "keep up with the Jones's" in order to compete, which leads to a lot faster burnout for players. I think the game looks and sells best when it's about the Infantry running around, and people connect with that feeling more as an overall experience.

Aside 2-3 players, the local community is thriving as ever. 4 new players more than made up for those that left.

I have played since 2nd edition.
6th-7th edition, I tried to like it, got into 6th as best I could and dropped it and did not play for the first time in literally decades.
You just could not keep up to the mess that ruleset was and the multitude of media that rules got published.

8th I like alot.
Rules are relatively simple and have removed the "fussy" stuff that the prior editions made play painfully slow.
Many rules I swear were borrowed from "Bot Action" which BTW was designed by former GW rules makers.

Effects on my local community?
- Size of 40k group has doubled over the last year (some six guys now 12 show up). We seem to see a new guy every couple weeks.
- The FLGS is carrying new release product when it comes out rather than wait for most old stock to sell.
- My other "old timer" friends started playing again (stopped playing at around 5th edition). We just had our first 8th edition full 3000 point game last weekend (4 guys 1500 pts each, 2 sides, Orks (new codex) vs Space Marines).

What I would like to see to make this ruleset be "knocked out of the park"?
- Alternating activation of units the I-go-you-go method still makes that going first so brutal and unbalanced. Bolt Action pulls coloured dice out of a bag for some randomization which would be nice to see.
- Terrain and targeting rules are a bit on the crude side and a source of much argument.
- I both like and hate how I can fire all weapons out the tailpipe of my vehicles (or anywhere for that matter). My "realism" friend keeps having issues with it, The vast improvement is each differing weapon can fire at whatever it wants so there would be no harm in requiring some form of firing arc (180 degrees of the facing 90/90) would work.

I am "happy" with what I have seen.
I have bought into a couple armies and added to existing ones.
I buy all the Codex's again when I gave up before.
I am happy to see more "engagement" with the community by GW both in videos and rather rapid FAQ updates.
They seem to genuinely try to fix glaring flaws.
I have bought quite a few of those boxed games that seem to provide a "deal" in cost so they seem to be doing things right.

I dislike painting somewhat.
In this edition I have painted more miniatures in the last year than I had the decade before.

In my area people are happier playing 8th than 7th that's for sure.

The only thing I've noticed is with how fast the meta can change with new codices, FAQs, Chapter Approved and such, the few really competitive players always change armies accordingly, making other less competitive players change their lists or buying new models to keep up, and this has created a kind of arms race that I can't follow with my Warhammer budget.

I still believe 40k has a significant part of Pay to Win in it, it's way easier being the best player when you can shell out 200€ every months because there's a new codex or FAQ that moves the OP stuff to another level.

 Arth-Rytis wrote:
So my local community (a decent size group made up of many 40k vets) has been in a bit of a slump lately. A lot of the vets have been losing interest in the game. While all were very excited about 8th edition's initial release, many are upset with how it has unfolded over the past year and a half. Some feel that future releases will eventually bring back their faded enthusiasm, while others feel that 8th edition caters more towards new players and building an entirely new community, virtually ending the game for veteran players.

As a fairly new player myself, having started at the end of 7th edition, I feel that I don't really have a say in such a discussion. I am interested, however, in how gaming communities throughout the world have changed with 8th edition. Has the influx in new players been followed by a decline in the old? Has the overall streamlining affected your interest, for better or worse? What changes have pushed you or your fellow gamers away from the game? Also, if you have experience playing in different parts of the world, what were the differences between those gaming communities?

With each new codex there has been a resurgence of old players. I expect to see 2 or 3 Ork players make the tables this month.

The popularity of the system for an individual club is largely driven by how negative the most influential person there is.

My clubs sniffy hipster iconoclast attitude to all things GW has mercifully purged all traces*

* well apart from the consistent half a dozen or so regulars...

40k had its heyday at my local store during 4th and 5th ed with an average somewhere between a dozen and twenty regulars and usually some more folks poking in. A fair number of those stuck around during 6th ed. Over the course of 7th ed, that number shrunk to four with a slight increase of new players towards the end, two of which make up the only remaining regulars now, in 8th ed, with one returning semi-regular who used to play in 5th ed.

Some of the old players occasionally play. Me, I haven't fielded any of my armies since February and only got in a handful games since the release of 9th ed. Generally though, we preferably play other games.

I can't speak for everyone and their reasons in detail (beware, sweeping statements to follow), but the consensus is bad rules and balance, laughable background changes and short lifetime of codices/the need to update rules ever quicker get in the way of enjoying the game.

As far as I'm concerned, 8th ed is not a game I want to play because it's a game of list building and dice rolling. The game itself has little substance and only the barest decision-making. Add to that a significant change to the tone of the background from what drew me in back in the day, and there is just nothing of interest left to me that would entice me to play.

While I'm not the biggest fan of the direction GW takes its models from multipose to monopose kits, they make some excellent models that I like to work with and put on display. They, too, are not enough to entice me to play, though, and in an ironic twist GW under Rountree has managed what Kirby never could: made me a collector with no interest in the game.

After the dumpster fire that was 6th and 7th our local shop went from having 4-5 regulars show up to upwards of 15. We even had a 2 day event where almost 40 people showed up. 8th isn't without its flaws for sure but I think GW is on the right track.

My local community loves it. Along with AOS. The masses have spoken. This is the type of game that people seem to want commercially... love it or hate it.

in 6th we'd have 25+ on a Thursday night. That dwindled to about 10 during 7th. Now in 8th we have 2-4 that play 40k and a few that play Killteam so they can be done in an hour and go home. My local store is pretty much dead. Luckily, there's 3 more within 45 mins.

It's definitely more popular than 6th and 7th were in my area. We have a monthly tournament with 12-18 people showing up. Our last escalation league had 14 people participate. In 7th, it seemed the longer the edition went on, the harder it was to find anyone to play against. I set up a table with some nice terrain at home so 2 of my friends could come over and play 30k. FLGS saw more WMH and Xwing players than 40k in 7th. 8th has finally brought 40k back to the top locally, and the sales figures I've seen tend to agree with that assessment.

From what it looks like, my new local store has seen a growth in it's 40k league, given by the fact that it's been restructured into 9 brackets of 6 from "everybody plays everybody".

Prior to that, the store I played at didn't have a league [nobody to organize it, nobody to play in it, and the manager didn't want to support competitive play] and it wasn't promising to go in an expect a pick up game, so I mostly played with my personal friends.

That said, I moved "home stores" specifically to participate in the new store's league when 8e happened, so I can't compare it to itself.



However, while I have more games at my local store, my "friends who play 40k" group has experienced significant attrition. At our height, we played roughly weekly, with 5-6 people. Of the original 5, only 1 remains.

Double post

People in our club are playing 8th ed - they were not playing 7th ed

8th breathed life back into our 40k community. 7th killed it so hard, it was impossible to get a game because people went on to other systems.
Now, people actually bring their 40k stuff to club day and and we'll actually see several tables hosting 40k games again.

I started playing in 6th edition, but I really only played against two of my friends at home, until the last few months of 7th when I started going to the local game store. I only really have mostly a second hand account of the local community before 8th, but from what I've been told it use to be a lot more active and seems to be slowly dying.

The first store I played at is completely dead 40k wise, I don't think anyone plays it there anymore. There is one guy there who tries to start campaigns and tournaments, but nobody ever does them. It's a shame because from what I've heard they had a pretty active community until shortly before 8th launched.

At my current store, which is about a 30 minute drive from me, we have about 7 regulars, but we are lucky if there are 2 games going on on their weekly 40k day. People were pretty positive about 8th there back in the spring, but now I'm hearing more and more complaints about how it's too simple and shallow, as well as about army imbalances, and the recent big FAQs. Nobody seems to like the current lore direction or Primaris Marines. The monthly tournaments occasionally draw a large crowd of 10-18 players and the first day of our new monthly narrative campaign had 9 people, so hopefully those numbers keep up. But still overall people seem to be losing enthusiasm for the game.

I personally have been getting bored with the rules and have been less motivated to play. Instead I have been finding a few people to get into Horus Heresy, because overall I find it to be a deeper and more engaging rule set and setting.

7th ed was getting sad. it was like the same 4 people I ever saw at the FLGS. With 8th, the FLGS is packed most 40k nights. There are a few clubs that play here and they all are usually pretty full.

This city went from having about 1 tournament/year to about 1/month.

Our facebook group is thriving.

That said, there are some people who have left the game for various reasons, but i've seen more return to the game than leaving.

Here people is playing again because of 8th, so yeah. Before 40k was basically dead, it was all Infinity.

Here the 8th ed has breathed life into 40k. It has basically been bad in the 7th. Players also do Infinity, Boltaction, AoS and whatnot. But no more WMH.

I don't really know. I stopped playing 40k just before 8th was announced, and haven't been to the GW store I used to frequent since. The LGS where I play now definitely sells some 40k, but how much and how often is it played I couldn't say. I rarely see people playing 40k (or GW games generally) when I'm there.

40k has really drawn in people, and with huge diversity in armies too.

My local, small gaming group regularly has 12 people playing 40k, and it has a good thriving kill Team scene also. It's been so successful were regularly getting a new person every two weeks playing 40k and the only army we haven't seen in the tables (yet!) is sisters of battle...

The big FLGS is currently into month 4 of a slow grow league, with a full day event planned in January to end it all.

8th has saved 40k in my area, and I hope it can continue.

Right now at my FLGS, Kill Team is most popular (as it's quick and everyone has a life), followed by 40k, which gets at least 1 regular game during the week and at least 2-3 during the weekend, more if people are available. Then SW Destiny is next, with the very, very common draft events almost beating 40k in overall games, and then it's a 4 way fight between Warmahordes, Malifaux, X-Wing, and Legion.

In short, 8th is popular here, but there's other things as popular or close to it.

Folks who play imperial and eldar in my area are enjoying life, the rest are on hobby break or building an imperial and/or eldar army. I think most are looking at the amount of models needed for Orks and saying feth that.

To those that have witnessed a change in your local community, what elements of 8th edition do you suspect is the cause of the increased or decreased popularity?

A lot of people that are playing it already had a sizable collection so they want to use their investment. new players getting into it get into it because of the massive playerbase.

The people that like it like the dominance of listbuilding synergies and its gamey nature as opposed to a closer alignment to actual military tactics / strategies which are considered simulationist and bad.

Massively increased popularity.

You can field any army (except Necrons and Grey Knights) and play a competitive game. You might not win all your games, but if you're a good, knowledgable player using the ITC format you can do well with dynamic game play.

The only things that were a step back are daemon primarchs and 3++ knights. Barring those things 8th is massively successful, due to the simple fact that pretty much any army can be played and played well. These are also the things keeping Necrons down, FWIW.

auticus wrote:
A lot of people that are playing it already had a sizable collection so they want to use their investment. new players getting into it get into it because of the massive playerbase.

The people that like it like the dominance of listbuilding synergies and its gamey nature as opposed to a closer alignment to actual military tactics / strategies which are considered simulationist and bad.

Sort of? Honestly, I don't feel the game is tactically deficient. If there's one major change I'd make, it'd be moving the movement phase to be the last phase, instead of the first.

And some of the actual historical wargames I play, which are intended to be more simulationist, have a greater level of abstraction than 40k. Some are more detailed, of course, but it varies based on the scale of the game.


I don't think the reduction of detail and "realism" equates to a reduction of tactical depth, though.

My local club was founded on Warhammer Fantasy, sigmar came and ALMOST broke us apart. Then we went to 7th edition 40k, and internest and joy was back (we have a gentlemens rule of not going cheese formations), then 8th landed....

We have NEVER made any house rules prior to 8th edition in any game execpt PnP.

In 8th we have over 50 ajustments, this makes the game fun again, and not just shoot and win.

So yeah, if we werent houseruleing to keep the interest out club would have fallen to 8th.

6th edition was a dumpster fire of epic proportions. 7th made slight improvements, but it was all about Deathstars. 8th is about combos. The only people preferring 6th and 7th over 8th are the ones who hate themselves or hate not having an "I win" button in their army (and yes, I say this as somebody who ran a ScreamerStar backed up by Kairos). I'm glad I (and others) can't do that kind of BS anymore. I'd rather find power combos of synergy than have an auto-win button in my army.