Would you play against some with a model or two that didn’t have war gear?

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**Apple Peel**

I was looking at my instructions and what not for a Tempestor Prime, and I realized I could take the pointing arm from the plasma gunner and use that in place of his pistol/command rod arm. I would not do this for 40K, as there really is only one competitive way to run full Scions, and that is with the rod, but I might consider it for Killteam, so I don’t have to try magnetizing the model under his greatcoat.

Have you ever run into this situation before? Would you play against a model in 40K or Killteam that was not armed? (I’m not saying incomplete, I’m just saying no gun/melee weapon (besides the standard combat arm every model is assumed to have.))

**Valkyrie**

General consensus is to check with your opponent beforehand. You should go through the list with him and point out "This is a Tempestor Prime, he has the Command Rod and other gubbins I've given him".

**Rybrook**

This is like the slung weapons problem years ago,

I have a marine veteran sgt pointing and holding an auspex with a slung bolter, same with an old techmarine, the rule was slung weapons couldn’t be used because they weren’t in the hand, I thinks it’s was from Necromunda where the designers got carried away so you had a basic leader that had all weapons but could only use what was in hand

We all know that marines have a bolt pistol and a combat blade but they are not modelled with them

So maybe that’s what it is, only the most basic load out but again your opponent must clarificationd before hand

**TarkinLarson**

Are you asking if WYSIWYG is compulsory?

Check with your opponent and/or tournament organiser first.

I would very happily play against a special weapons holding modelwhich has a meltagun, but you can tell me it's a flamer... as long as it's clear to me and there won't be much confusion. You don't have to go out and buy lots of models or start pinning and magnetising (pinning arms is much easier on smaller/infantry models than magnetising) in my opinion.

I have a company commander which is holding a rod and is pointing with his other hand. He's pretty unique so I'm sure if my oponent agreed and it wasn't confusing I could say he had a plasma pistol and a power sword wargear!
Grenades, pistols and close combat weapons are not modelled and are fine

But again.. other people do care, so check before playing!

**Ishagu**

I personally would not.

**HoundsofDemos**

I'd be fine with it as long as there are not a ton of models like that. For something like kill team, I'd be 100 percent fine with it since there are very few models/options.

**Sterling191**

So long as your "counts as" or conversions are clear and consistent, go to town.

It's about having fun and whatnot right?

**Big Mac**

Ishagu wrote:
I personally would not.

If you're serious, you are a A-hole.

OP: what you're asking is WYSIWYG, I think most are fine with it as long as you point out what the models are equipped with, not something outrageous like this GL is a plasma and that GL is a melta kinda confusion. What is good in the meta changes when a new errata or edition rolls around, so model what is cool and use count as.

**ccs**

It looks like the model has some kind of pack on under its coat? I'd just trim off the head of the staff & model it there beside that entena. There, now he's equipped with it. Just not holding it.

**Grimtuff**

Rybrook wrote:
This is like the slung weapons problem years ago,

I have a marine veteran sgt pointing and holding an auspex with a slung bolter, same with an old techmarine, the rule was slung weapons couldn’t be used because they weren’t in the hand, I thinks it’s was from Necromunda where the designers got carried away so you had a basic leader that had all weapons but could only use what was in hand

We all know that marines have a bolt pistol and a combat blade but they are not modelled with them

So maybe that’s what it is, only the most basic load out but again your opponent must clarificationd before hand

Um, what? No such rule has ever existed in 40k.

For the record, WYSIWYG doesn't actually exist in this edition of 40k. It only exists amongst gentlemen's agreements in groups and tournaments. The core rules say nothing on the subject.

**AndrewGPaul**

Rybrook wrote:
This is like the slung weapons problem years ago,

I have a marine veteran sgt pointing and holding an auspex with a slung bolter, same with an old techmarine, the rule was slung weapons couldn’t be used because they weren’t in the hand, I thinks it’s was from Necromunda where the designers got carried away so you had a basic leader that had all weapons but could only use what was in hand

I don't know where you got that rule from, but it's certainly never been in any edition of Necromunda.

That game had a rule where if you had a basic, special or heavy weapon, you couldn't use two melee weapons in close combat because "you needed one free hand to steady your gun", but that had nothing to do with how the miniature was sculpted.

If you've got a model which doesn't depict a bit of equipment that's compulsory (a Tactical Marine without his bolter, for example), that's fine by me. Otherwise, "those flamers are really plasma guns" is annoying. I'd probably let my friends get away with it, but not without comment, and possibly sarcasm.

**Overread**

When it comes to WYSIWYG

1) Most people require the primary weapons to be modelled and to be clear on the model what they are. They also have to be clear within the army as a whole.
So for example you could have all your melta guns be flamers, so long as all the melta guns of the same look were flamers. No mixing it up as this leads to confusion.

2) Most people do not require upgrades to be modelled. Even those that come in the box are often purely seen as decoration rather than actual wargear. This is because on a practical level most are nearly impossible to see when looking down at a table during gameplay; but also because its totally impractical for most gamers to buy and build model armies 100% perfect with regard to upgrades.
Certainly people do it, but it locks them into a single army composition in a game where chopping and changing upgrades can be very important and make changes to how an army functions. It's even more the case if you magnetize weapons (the upgrades you'd take for a close combat unit are different to a ranged one).

3) Clarity is often easier to overlook when your units are clearly distinct from each other and when you've a clearly written out army list.

In general WYSIWYG is all about casual clarity in the game. Primary weapons are important because those often define the core role and function of a unit. If its got a +1 attack or somesuch seal or grenades or the like its a bonus, but its not changing the fact that that unit with plasma guns is clearly a powerful ranged attacker.
Most people are reasonably forgiving with regard to WYSIWYG provided that your army is clearly displayed and you're not trying to cheat by causing confusion.

**Rybrook**

Im not wanting to argue this but its in the 96 FAQ as well by JJ and AC

New Q&A below were added on 1/02/96.
10. There is an Orlock ganger that is carrying a
pistol and a hand weapon that also has a lasgun slung
over his shoulder. Our question is, how does this guy
fight? The rules clearly state ,"Bear in mind that a
fighter with a basic, special, or heavy weapon needs at
least one hand just to carry it."(p. 28).
We've heavily this question, which includes lots of
other examples and stuff. The answer to the question is
rather long, but bear with us and we're sure all will be
made clear.
When we were playtesting Necromunda we used our
own converted models for the games - we had to as the
models coming out now hadn't been designed at that
time. The rules for losing the bonus attack dice if
you've got a basic, special or heavy weapon, and the
rule referred to above were introduced at that time.
They serve to balance the game and discourage
players from arming their models with as many
different weapons as they can lay their hands on.
Unfortunately when it came to making the figures our
miniature designers got a bit, erm, carried away, with
the result that some models have weapons that they
are not technically allowed to use under the rules.
This leaves players with two choices:
a) Simply ignore the weapons, or remove them from
the model.
or
b) Ignore the rule that says a model has to keep a
hand free to carry basic, special and heavy weapons,
and assume that these weapons can be slung. Note
that if you go for this option then the rule about losing
the extra attack dice does still apply (although the
weapon is slung the extra bulk and weight cancels out
the advantage of using and extra hand weapon), but
you will be able to take advantage of any special rules
that applies to the extra weapons you are using
(parries, strength bonus's, etc.,).