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vs. the age of sigmar universe?

does Chaos operate the same for both universes, or does it act differently?

LightKing wrote:
vs. the age of sigmar universe?

does Chaos operate the same for both universes, or does it act differently?

Chaos in 40k is both very simple and very, very complicated.

On a simple level, “Chaos” wants what it has now, which is endless war to feed upon and continue to exist. It might ebb and flow somewhat in line with galactic events, but overall Chaos acts to keep the galaxy where it is at a grand level.

On a more detailed level, Chaos acts as differently as a force spread across the galaxy possibly can. There are warmasters prosecuting the Long War against the Imperium. Conquerors out to carve their own empire. Zealots bent on creating a galactic religion of evil. Frothing maniacs devoted entirely to slaughter, or pleasure, or entropy. Scholars who exist only to learn the secrets of the universe. There are also countless trillions of men, women and children who live within Chaos “culture” and try to live and prosper, who feed their armies, work their economy, construct their cities and so on.

Chaos is just as detailed as the Imperium, and just as varied.

Yes, that is one thing that would be interesting to know...

Both settings have Chaos, and the vast majority of the daemonic forces are the same in both settings. Whether the Wap in 40k is the same "place" as the Realm of Chaos in AoS has never been explicitly stated (although some novels and bits of background writing hint at it) and it doesn't really make much difference one way or the other.

Patriarch Phyrx wrote:

LightKing wrote:
vs. the age of sigmar universe?

does Chaos operate the same for both universes, or does it act differently?

Chaos in 40k is both very simple and very, very complicated.

On a simple level, “Chaos” wants what it has now, which is endless war to feed upon and continue to exist. It might ebb and flow somewhat in line with galactic events, but overall Chaos acts to keep the galaxy where it is at a grand level.

On a more detailed level, Chaos acts as differently as a force spread across the galaxy possibly can. There are warmasters prosecuting the Long War against the Imperium. Conquerors out to carve their own empire. Zealots bent on creating a galactic religion of evil. Frothing maniacs devoted entirely to slaughter, or pleasure, or entropy. Scholars who exist only to learn the secrets of the universe. There are also countless trillions of men, women and children who live within Chaos “culture” and try to live and prosper, who feed their armies, work their economy, construct their cities and so on.

Chaos is just as detailed as the Imperium, and just as varied.

I don't think Slan, Nurg and Khorne are on that level. All three seek what they embody at any price. All three would burn the galaxy in either plague, hedonism or murder. They don't curtail their actions due to any balance. Tzeen on the other hand perhaps does operate in this manner as his plots may just as much hurt chaos as a whole as help it. However, recent events ushered in by his best boys seems to think he did not see things in balance (the empire needed a whooping) OR He is setting up a epic feast for his brothers only to turn on them and let the empire and other races drive them back to the eye so they may recover only to start anew.

I don't know anything about sigmar's age so I cant comment.

In the Old World I think they would have been a little bit different, purely due to the scales involved. With the AoS setting now being vast and sprawling like the Imperium I would expect Chaos to operate in largely the same way in both. The portrayal of Chaos has often been very inconsistent, and not always on purpose, so it's difficult to say with any certainty what the differences between Chaos in each setting is, if any.

Any inconsistencies and differences are naturally just Tzeentch up to his usual tricks

I like to subscribe to the theory that everything which happens in the Fantasy universe is self contained within the 40k universe. A lot of people abandoned this theory after the Old World blew up, because the prevailing idea was that the Old World was simply an old human planet isolated from the Imperium by Warp storms. My take is that it was never a real planet but that everything that happens in both the Old World and the Age of Sigmar are the tormented dreams of the dying Emperor. The constant warfare of the Fantasy universe is his consciousness trying to come to terms with his constant psychic battle trying to hold back the terrors of the Warp, while his soul searches desperately to return to a mortal form. The whole End of Times was him trying to make sense of the Great Rift, an event of which he is only vaguely aware.

Where'd I get this notion? Ma plughole. What evidence have I to support it? Diddly.

I find that notion harder to entertain now with the Mortal Realms setting - not sure how you crowbar 8 infinite disks into the 40k setting.

Personally, I just didn't find the question that interesting; it doesn't really add anything particularly exciting to the story of either setting if it's true.

I don't know about Age of Sigmar since I don't know much about AoS lore, but in old Fantasy there were quite a lot of differences, mostly related to the Winds of Magic (magic not existing in 40k) and psykers and psychic phenomena (those not existing in Fantasy). I assume that with AoS still having magic, as well as with the whole way the Mortal Realms work, there are a lot more differences now.

In broad terms they have always been and still are very similar though. Most importantly their ultimate purpose to consume the material world and drown it in a tide of pure Chaos is the same.

As far as I can tell, chaos is a much sweeter deal in WHFB and AOS than 40k. In 40k, Chaos Space Marines aren't really any better than regular marines until they're daemon princes, and from a quality of life perspective siding with chaos sucks. Whereas in AOS and WHFB they turn more-or-less ordinary vikings into that setting's most badass super-soldiers, who really had no equivalent among the other human factions until stormcast came around. After giving you a huge leg-up over your fellow mortals, they then offer the same warrior->champion->daemon prince progression you see in 40k.

I know cultists and marauders still exist in WHFB and AOS and they're still kinda screwed, but it's important that there's that step where the chaos gods actually give you something before you reach full daemonhood rather than relying on the Emperor to make their super-soldiers.

AndrewGPaul wrote:I find that notion harder to entertain now with the Mortal Realms setting - not sure how you crowbar 8 infinite disks into the 40k setting.

I don't think there's any feasible way to physically fit the Mortal Realms into the 40k universe. The Mortal Realms seem to be abstract beyond any meaningful physical description anyway. That's why, I think the only possible way to fit one into the other is to suggest it's all a dream. Not that there's even the merest shred of evidence to support this.

AndrewGPaul wrote:Personally, I just didn't find the question that interesting; it doesn't really add anything particularly exciting to the story of either setting if it's true.

Agreed. Despite sharing the theory, I have absolutely no desire to see it come to fruition; nothing cheapens a setting more than the, "it was all a dream" trope.

Iron_Captain wrote:I don't know about Age of Sigmar since I don't know much about AoS lore, but in old Fantasy there were quite a lot of differences, mostly related to the Winds of Magic (magic not existing in 40k) and psykers and psychic phenomena (those not existing in Fantasy). I assume that with AoS still having magic, as well as with the whole way the Mortal Realms work, there are a lot more differences now.

In broad terms they have always been and still are very similar though. Most importantly their ultimate purpose to consume the material world and drown it in a tide of pure Chaos is the same.

I always thought of "psychic" and "magic" as two words for essentially the same phenomenon. Indeed practitioners are often referred to as witches or wyches in both settings.

One thing I'm not clear on, is where magic comes from in Age of Sigmar. In the Old World the Winds of Magic came from the poles, right? What's the story with the Mortal Realms?