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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/28 09:11:12
Subject: Grav Chute Insertion, Ruins and Disembarking
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It's me again, with another combination of events which I think may cause some issues.
so, the scenario is:
A Valkyrie moves directly over some 3 story high ruins, and the unit inside jumps out using the grav chute rule.
The grav chute rule states that the unit can disembark anywhere on the Valkyries movement (the bit where people die on 1's is irrelevant for now).
Disembarking states that the unit must deploy within 3" of the model, or it's base in this case, I assume.
"Fly" states that the Valkyrie can move across models and terrain as if it were not there.
so, can I deploy the unit on the ground floor? If we moved the Valkyrie, stopped it for the sake of measuring to disembark, and then finished the move, then it would not be possible to place the Valkyrie on the ground floor and the models would have to deploy on the top. However, the Valkyrie ignores the terrain during its move, and as its movement hasn't finished yet, can it be assumed that the terrain were not there and so the models placed within 3" could be on the ground?
it's a rare scenario but I can see the tactical advantage of deploying in cover but without the trek to get to the ground floor. I've been thinking of using Valkyries as a method of deploying key units in useful positions (eg 2 special weapons squads with 3 meltaguns each, or a full infantry squad onto an objective).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/28 09:43:28
Subject: Grav Chute Insertion, Ruins and Disembarking
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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You moved over the Ruins by your description, not through, and just ignored the movement penalty for doing so. Unless the ground floor is within 3” of the point you moved over then no, you couldn’t deploy further by trying to misapply the FLY benefits.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/28 09:43:54
Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/28 10:25:28
Subject: Grav Chute Insertion, Ruins and Disembarking
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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But, would the Valkyrie be on top of the ruin? if so, did it have to move up the ruin to be there? if not, then surely if it starts on the ground and finishes on the ground, it spends the duration of it's move on the ground? Or must a fliers movement be measured across the highest points which it flies over?
For example, if an assault marine is confronted with a 10" high ruin, if can move over it as if it didn't exist - it doesn't move to the top and then wait. But, at no point in it's move has it moved vertically to the top, so if a rule which activated "at any point during it's movement" activates, would the measured distance be from the top of the ruin, where the marine never was, or from the ground?
I just struggle with the idea of drawing a straight line through the run as if it weren't there for movement, but then stating that the flier is actually on top, so didn't follow it's own movement path..
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/28 12:21:36
Subject: Grav Chute Insertion, Ruins and Disembarking
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Sure, you could jump them out and move through the wall at an earlier/later point in the move if possible. I just don’t think you could say pick the top then count 9” down as 3” away. A different legal move is fine.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/28 12:36:23
Subject: Grav Chute Insertion, Ruins and Disembarking
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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and that's the crux of it - if it's moving through the wall, and they may disembark at any point during the move, then why not at that point?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/28 13:19:44
Subject: Grav Chute Insertion, Ruins and Disembarking
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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You can deploy them anywhere in the ruin, you just have to not state that the plane is flying to the top of the ruins as part of its movement (if for example you were using the vertical movement as part of your minimum move).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/28 13:23:17
Subject: Re:Grav Chute Insertion, Ruins and Disembarking
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Regular Dakkanaut
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It isn't moving "through the wall," either by technical RAW or by what that RAW is conceptually representing. It is moving "across models and terrain as if they were not there." If you are moving across a three-story structure, at no point are you inside that structure.
If you want to declare the disembarking point to be the moment before the flyer's base crosses over the table space occupied by the building, that's a different story, as pointed out previously. But if you declare it to occur as the flyer is crossing the terrain, then surely you have to measure your disembarking distance from the top surface of that terrain.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/28 16:44:29
Subject: Grav Chute Insertion, Ruins and Disembarking
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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some bloke wrote:and that's the crux of it - if it's moving through the wall, and they may disembark at any point during the move, then why not at that point?
If they have sufficient movement to reach the intended spot then you’re fine. So actually I revise my view for a unit with a 6”+ move. They could deploy 3” down (one storey) then move another 6” (two stories) even from the top. So if you have sufficient movement then it seems valid.
(Also when I said “moving through the ruin” I was referring to the Infantry not the plane.)
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/28 19:03:06
Subject: Grav Chute Insertion, Ruins and Disembarking
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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some bloke wrote:It's me again, with another combination of events which I think may cause some issues.
so, the scenario is:
A Valkyrie moves directly over some 3 story high ruins, and the unit inside jumps out using the grav chute rule.
The grav chute rule states that the unit can disembark anywhere on the Valkyries movement (the bit where people die on 1's is irrelevant for now).
Disembarking states that the unit must deploy within 3" of the model, or it's base in this case, I assume.
"Fly" states that the Valkyrie can move across models and terrain as if it were not there.
so, can I deploy the unit on the ground floor? If we moved the Valkyrie, stopped it for the sake of measuring to disembark, and then finished the move, then it would not be possible to place the Valkyrie on the ground floor and the models would have to deploy on the top. However, the Valkyrie ignores the terrain during its move, and as its movement hasn't finished yet, can it be assumed that the terrain were not there and so the models placed within 3" could be on the ground?
it's a rare scenario but I can see the tactical advantage of deploying in cover but without the trek to get to the ground floor. I've been thinking of using Valkyries as a method of deploying key units in useful positions (eg 2 special weapons squads with 3 meltaguns each, or a full infantry squad onto an objective).
Actually, you would be restricted to disembarking at the ground level to a level not higher than 3" only. You wouldnt be able to gravchute disembark onto a platform higher than 3" (plus base height if you really want to nitpick it).
When you move a unit with FLY keyword, it "passes through" terrain as if it was not there - meaning, the base of the valkyrie is always at elevation of Z=0".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/11/29 09:22:39
Subject: Grav Chute Insertion, Ruins and Disembarking
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
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Looks like the wording is vague, and hence we will not reach a definitive conclusion.
The main problem is that GW have never explicitly said what path a FLY model takes when moving across terrain. Is it assumed to phase through walls, or track over them but ignoring vertical movement? Both are plausible and neither have been explicitly called out as correct.
As such, stick this on the "talk to you opponent beforehand" list for the time being.
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