Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2018/12/03 00:18:43
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
I can't help but wonder how easier this game would be if GW updated their digital rule books as FAQs came out, but obviously this doesn't help those who only buy physical copies. Should GW just include free digital keys with physical copies? Would they lose out on digital sales?
2018/12/03 00:29:29
Subject: Re:Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
That would mean GW would have to spend extra money in distributing the digital copies. It'd be super nice for customer relations but it makes zero sense for their business.
2018/12/03 00:43:54
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
drbored wrote: That would mean GW would have to spend extra money in distributing the digital copies. It'd be super nice for customer relations but it makes zero sense for their business.
What extra money? It wouldnt cost much vs printing and physcial distribution costs.
Kid comes into GW store, staff tell them to download it on the spot (provide free wifi to do so).
I suspect they make decent revenue from selling Codex to new comers. Would also make pirate copies more prevalent.
2018/12/03 00:59:45
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
drbored wrote: That would mean GW would have to spend extra money in distributing the digital copies. It'd be super nice for customer relations but it makes zero sense for their business.
They already produce digital formats so there would be no extra cost. Only "extra" cost would be including an extra card or printed page at the back of the codex with a serial number to redeem your code online.
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |
2018/12/03 01:06:32
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Some RPG companies will send you a pdf of their games you buy the physical copy of.
Most people who are going to steal will do it anyway. This would just save them the journey of tortured logic to get to the how GW makes them a victim so it's okay to steal.
2018/12/03 01:51:53
Subject: Re:Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Some companies offer free versions of their rules books as pdfs to get people to buy miniatures. I believe if gw did it would attract at least a few new players.
"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura.
2018/12/03 01:59:30
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Crimson Devil wrote: Some RPG companies will send you a pdf of their games you buy the physical copy of.
Most people who are going to steal will do it anyway. This would just save them the journey of tortured logic to get to the how GW makes them a victim so it's okay to steal.
/thread
Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis!
2018/12/03 02:10:02
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Riggs wrote: I can't help but wonder how easier this game would be if GW updated their digital rule books as FAQs came out, but obviously this doesn't help those who only buy physical copies. Should GW just include free digital keys with physical copies? Would they lose out on digital sales?
The enhanced editions do get updates already. So really, GW is treating their book buyers a little unfairly already. And I really wouldn't worry about digital sales, they're so cheap to make that most of the price represents pure profit (most apps are only $5-$10 so...)
TBH, the core rules of each codex should be free pdfs. GW makes most of its money off of minis anyway, and right now the devs don't want to invalidate purchases which is why erratas are so light. If the rules were just free, they'd get brownie points for being customer friendly while also allowing them to completely change the rules as if they were betas instead of a full product. It would also be super accessible to new players.
2018/12/03 03:10:00
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
What's strange is that AOS is mostly free (battletomes include extra rules but every unit warscroll is freely available online)
Initially it was free to help encourage people get over the implosion of the Old World but after a few years they've kept to that model. I was expecting that 40k would have followed suit with 8th (rules are free albeit only in the boxes, not online)
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |
2018/12/03 03:16:52
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Crimson Devil wrote: Some RPG companies will send you a pdf of their games you buy the physical copy of.
Most people who are going to steal will do it anyway. This would just save them the journey of tortured logic to get to the how GW makes them a victim so it's okay to steal.
The only thing, I think, is that there is less incentive for a customer to do digital only so it ends up costing the company more when they buy the more costly books.
2018/12/03 03:37:35
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Initially it was free to help encourage people get over the implosion of the Old World but after a few years they've kept to that model. I was expecting that 40k would have followed suit with 8th (rules are free albeit only in the boxes, not online)
Index should definitely be free. Charging people for rules they didnt want was pretty average.
2018/12/03 04:12:21
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Fantasy Flight makes available PDF copies of their rules (various boardgames, X-Wing, Runewars, etc.). They routinely preview various cards and with a little looking, it's easy enough to download the images for home games. Hasn't slowed the purchase of their product for me in the slightest, and I have pretty much their entire library at my fingertips at game time.
Paizo has cheap!!! PDF copies of their books and most of the rules are available on the Pathfinder SRD for free. Currently, you can download their playtest of Pathfinder 2 for free. I've bought both the hardcopies and PDFs - I use the books from the comfort of my home, and the PDFs on the go so I'm not lugging 30 lbs. of books around.
GW does have the AOS basic rules, warscrolls and the 40K base rules as free downloads. You can get digital copies of the books for at or slightly cheaper than the printed version. I don't really understand though why they don't take that last step and make at least the basic (index?) datasheets for 40K available for free. Also makes me a little miffed we had to pay for the indexes themselves, there really should have been free electronic copies of them since the plan was replace them in a year (or two)'s time.
It never ends well
2018/12/03 04:29:51
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
drbored wrote: That would mean GW would have to spend extra money in distributing the digital copies. It'd be super nice for customer relations but it makes zero sense for their business.
What extra money? It wouldnt cost much vs printing and physcial distribution costs.
Kid comes into GW store, staff tell them to download it on the spot (provide free wifi to do so).
I suspect they make decent revenue from selling Codex to new comers. Would also make pirate copies more prevalent.
y'all don't understand how websites and digital distribution work.
Every click to your website costs bandwidth. Every upload takes an extra expensive piece of bandwidth (cheaper to download than to upload). Then you've gotta pay people to keep all the files in order. Yeah, they do a lot of that already through their websites, but we're talking an additional service in order to exchange a code that comes in your Codex for a digital download. That costs money too. And then you have to consider that people are coming to your website not to buy anything, but just to download something. That means you're paying for all that bandwidth without getting anything in return. Not only that, when a Codex drops, there's likely to be a jump in users on your website during the first few days, all just to download a file.
It may not be a lot of money, it may seem super simple to you, but it's a more complicated issue than you realize and why would GW bother when they can make money by selling you the physical copy and then selling you the digital one separately?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 04:30:13
2018/12/03 04:46:17
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Crimson Devil wrote: Some RPG companies will send you a pdf of their games you buy the physical copy of.
Most people who are going to steal will do it anyway. This would just save them the journey of tortured logic to get to the how GW makes them a victim so it's okay to steal.
Sorry but I don't consider downloading pirate pdfs stealing in all cases. While you may righteously condemn those who disagree it doesn't bother me.
See, if I buy a product I expect it to perform as advertised. So if I buy codex space marines and codex heretic space marines (which i did) I have every right to expect them to Function as advertised, to let me to build and run a marine army.
If gw later decides the codexes are wrong and change points values I have every right to expect the correct values to be made available to me so I can use my codexes which I have paid for. If they we gong to change a published book peolle have bought the people who bought it are entitled to have a usable probuct since they've paid for it.
Now if gw decides to change the points values and make the products I paid for invalid then charge me to make them valid again, I say "Xxxx you. " I am not paying gw another 30 or more $ to buy the fix for a product I've paid for and they then decided was invalid.
If changes to printed material are made gw has an obligation to make those changes available to the buyers whose money they have taken. If they instead decide to make peopel pay for he fixes to the products they've paid for then those peolle are right to refuse to and get those fixes without giving gw another cent.
If you buy a car and later it turns out to be defective as it left the maker, do you think you should pay to make it right or should the carmaker?
If gw wants to sell chapter approved it should be 100% new optional expansion material, not necessary changes to products peolle have realdey paid for and are now being told to pay for fixes to.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 04:48:34
"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura.
2018/12/03 04:48:31
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
drbored wrote: That would mean GW would have to spend extra money in distributing the digital copies. It'd be super nice for customer relations but it makes zero sense for their business.
What extra money? It wouldnt cost much vs printing and physcial distribution costs.
Kid comes into GW store, staff tell them to download it on the spot (provide free wifi to do so).
I suspect they make decent revenue from selling Codex to new comers. Would also make pirate copies more prevalent.
y'all don't understand how websites and digital distribution work.
Every click to your website costs bandwidth. Every upload takes an extra expensive piece of bandwidth (cheaper to download than to upload). Then you've gotta pay people to keep all the files in order. Yeah, they do a lot of that already through their websites, but we're talking an additional service in order to exchange a code that comes in your Codex for a digital download. That costs money too. And then you have to consider that people are coming to your website not to buy anything, but just to download something. That means you're paying for all that bandwidth without getting anything in return. Not only that, when a Codex drops, there's likely to be a jump in users on your website during the first few days, all just to download a file.
It may not be a lot of money, it may seem super simple to you, but it's a more complicated issue than you realize and why would GW bother when they can make money by selling you the physical copy and then selling you the digital one separately?
That entire cost can be deferred by a pennies increase in model sales. Models that would more likely be bought because consumers aren't sinking it into the books, and the company isn't sinking into producing dead tree copies (that are already in flux before they hit the street - ask BCB ).
Besides, there's ALREADY a bunch of PDFs on GW's web site as is, they're already hosting it now. The only change would be the price point they're currently charging. They can either frontload the cost at the book level, or defer the costs to the models on the back end.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 04:49:27
It never ends well
2018/12/03 04:50:12
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
drbored wrote: That would mean GW would have to spend extra money in distributing the digital copies. It'd be super nice for customer relations but it makes zero sense for their business.
What extra money? It wouldnt cost much vs printing and physcial distribution costs.
Kid comes into GW store, staff tell them to download it on the spot (provide free wifi to do so).
I suspect they make decent revenue from selling Codex to new comers. Would also make pirate copies more prevalent.
y'all don't understand how websites and digital distribution work.
Every click to your website costs bandwidth. Every upload takes an extra expensive piece of bandwidth (cheaper to download than to upload). Then you've gotta pay people to keep all the files in order. Yeah, they do a lot of that already through their websites, but we're talking an additional service in order to exchange a code that comes in your Codex for a digital download. That costs money too. And then you have to consider that people are coming to your website not to buy anything, but just to download something. That means you're paying for all that bandwidth without getting anything in return. Not only that, when a Codex drops, there's likely to be a jump in users on your website during the first few days, all just to download a file.
It may not be a lot of money, it may seem super simple to you, but it's a more complicated issue than you realize and why would GW bother when they can make money by selling you the physical copy and then selling you the digital one separately?
That entire cost can be deferred by a pennies increase in model sales. Models that would more likely be bought because consumers aren't sinking it into the books, and the company isn't sinking into producing dead tree copies (that are already in flux before they hit the street - ask BCB ).
Besides, there's ALREADY a bunch of PDFs on GW's web site as is, they're already hosting it now. The only change would be the price point they're currently charging. They can either frontload the cost at the book level, or defer the costs to the models on the back end.
I wish I could exalt this post more than once...
"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura.
2018/12/03 04:53:19
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Crimson Devil wrote: Some RPG companies will send you a pdf of their games you buy the physical copy of.
Most people who are going to steal will do it anyway. This would just save them the journey of tortured logic to get to the how GW makes them a victim so it's okay to steal.
Sorry but I don't consider downloading pirate pdfs stealing in all cases. While you may righteously condemn those who disagree it doesn't bother me.
See, if I buy a product I expect it to perform as advertised. So if I buy codex space marines and codex heretic space marines (which i did) I have every right to expect them to Function as advertised, to let me to build and run a marine army.
If gw later decides the codexes are wrong and change points values I have every right to expect the correct values to be made available to me so I can use my codexes which I have paid for. If they we gong to change a published book peolle have bought the people who bought it are entitled to have a usable probuct since they've paid for it.
Now if gw decides to change the points values and make the products I paid for invalid then charge me to make them valid again, I say "Xxxx you. " I am not paying gw another 30 or more $ to buy the fix for a product I've paid for and they then decided was invalid.
If changes to printed material are made gw has an obligation to make those changes available to the buyers whose money they have taken. If they instead decide to make peopel pay for he fixes to the products they've paid for then those peolle are right to refuse to and get those fixes without giving gw another cent.
If you buy a car and later it turns out to be defective as it left the maker, do you think you should pay to make it right or should the carmaker?
If gw wants to sell chapter approved it should be 100% new optional expansion material, not necessary changes to products peolle have realdey paid for and are now being told to pay for fixes to.
2018/12/03 05:06:41
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Crimson Devil wrote: Some RPG companies will send you a pdf of their games you buy the physical copy of.
Most people who are going to steal will do it anyway. This would just save them the journey of tortured logic to get to the how GW makes them a victim so it's okay to steal.
Sorry but I don't consider downloading pirate pdfs stealing in all cases. While you may righteously condemn those who disagree it doesn't bother me.
See, if I buy a product I expect it to perform as advertised. So if I buy codex space marines and codex heretic space marines (which i did) I have every right to expect them to Function as advertised, to let me to build and run a marine army.
If gw later decides the codexes are wrong and change points values I have every right to expect the correct values to be made available to me so I can use my codexes which I have paid for. If they we gong to change a published book peolle have bought the people who bought it are entitled to have a usable probuct since they've paid for it.
Now if gw decides to change the points values and make the products I paid for invalid then charge me to make them valid again, I say "Xxxx you. " I am not paying gw another 30 or more $ to buy the fix for a product I've paid for and they then decided was invalid.
If changes to printed material are made gw has an obligation to make those changes available to the buyers whose money they have taken. If they instead decide to make peopel pay for he fixes to the products they've paid for then those peolle are right to refuse to and get those fixes without giving gw another cent.
If you buy a car and later it turns out to be defective as it left the maker, do you think you should pay to make it right or should the carmaker?
If gw wants to sell chapter approved it should be 100% new optional expansion material, not necessary changes to products peolle have realdey paid for and are now being told to pay for fixes to.
Let's see, responding to a reasonable point with a snarky quip and personal attack.
And that's another one in the win column...
"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura.
2018/12/03 07:49:57
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
I'm just playing the part you cast me in. Or did you not want to be "righteously condemned"?
Look, Rocket. Just because you want something more than the person you owns doesn't mean you can take it. You can cast yourself as the hero "fighting corporate greed" all you want. At the end of the day it's theft. All you're doing is lying to yourself. If you're going to be a thief, than own it. Because ironically it's a title you have to earn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 07:50:31
2018/12/03 07:57:47
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
I'm just playing the part you cast me in. Or did you not want to be "righteously condemned"?
Look, Rocket. Just because you want something more than the person you owns doesn't mean you can take it. You can cast yourself as the hero "fighting corporate greed" all you want. At the end of the day it's theft. All you're doing is lying to yourself. If you're going to be a thief, than own it. Because ironically it's a title you have to earn.
OK, next time you get a new car and itcs defective you be sure to pay for the fix yourelf.
If believing I should not have to lay for a mistake the maker and seller of an item made makes me a thief, pardon me while I slip on a burglar mask and black cloak.
"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura.
2018/12/03 08:18:17
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Please don't try to justify piracy. Everyone's done it, but it's never the right thing to do, no matter how much you try to blame the company for you pirating their stuff.
Well I'm just not going to pay GW to fix something in a product I've already paid for, so what am I supposed to do?
"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura.
2018/12/03 08:27:10
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
As defined by laws laid down by the rich and powerful. You will notice that, by and large, it's legal for the rich to take wealth from the poor, and illegal to do the reverse. You would do well not to equate laws with objective morality.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 08:28:45
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2018/12/03 08:36:18
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
As defined by laws laid down by the rich and powerful. You will notice that, by and large, it's legal for the rich to take wealth from the poor, and illegal to do the reverse. You would do well not to equate laws with objective morality.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 08:44:21
"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura.
2018/12/03 13:52:13
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
phillv85 wrote: Please don't try to justify piracy. Everyone's done it, but it's never the right thing to do, no matter how much you try to blame the company for you pirating their stuff.
That is not true. Whole nations have risen to prominance thanks to piracy or theft of some sort. If the end goal is success then piracy is not good only in one situation, when you get caught and punished. If you just get caught, but can't be punished, you get a Tu-70 situation, which is still profitable and good for the pirate.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2018/12/03 14:38:26
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
I’d say they should include a digital copy with each hard copy, but knowing GW the chances of that happening are marginally above 0.
A $10 U.S. max price for the digital alone would be a more reasonable solution, with that in mind, but it’s not just GW that charges way too much for digital books. When I can get a new hard copy of a book on Amazon for cheaper than the kindle edition, the system does not make sense. I’m sure the auto-pricing system based on whatever algorithms are employed factor into this, but nonetheless...
2018/12/03 14:46:59
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
I see GW's rules books kind of like Music of the late 90's.
They want full price and the world is full of Napsters.
I know several guys that buy a physical copy, but then I also see each of them sure want a PDF copy for the phone so they can have all the rules without the backache. And most of them get it. And they don't buy another copy.
I personally went digital only years ago. Best decision I've made.
2018/12/03 14:51:15
Subject: Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
I kinda like the O'Reilly model. If you buy a physical copy of an O'Reilly book you get a code that allows you to buy a digital copy for peanuts(5 dollars last time I bought). If you buy a digital copy you get a discount on a physical copy and so on.
Of course I'd like to get a free copy, but if GW really wants to milk their customers I think the O'Reilly model is quite good.
2018/12/03 14:59:11
Subject: Re:Would including a digital copy with every physical copy of books be bad business?
Before we derail too far into piracy land consider these options:
Buy Digital - $30
Buy Physical and get free Digital - $50
- The Digital Only customer feels slighted, right? How do you make them happy?
- Obviously many digital customers will spring for Physical & Digital for only $20 more. While this sounds great it means GW prints more books (more expensive) and loses revenue overall.
It's not simple to "just give digital for free" even if I would prefer that. A voucher for half off digital is the best one could hope for.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Techpriestsupport wrote: Well I'm just not going to pay GW to fix something in a product I've already paid for, so what am I supposed to do?
There is no implied warranty for the product. You're just making an excuse to justify your actions. The book still "works" as is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 15:00:19
5300 | 
2800 | 
3600 | 
1600 | 
).
2200pts/1750 painted
2800pts/1200 painted
2200pts/650 painted
217pts/151 painted 
