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Greetings, this situation came up in today's 83 PL fight.

SM/GK vs DeathGuard

SM A Cpt in Gravis Armor
SM B 5 man Intercesor

GK C 5man Interceptor

DG 1 7 plauge marine
DG 2 Lord of Contagion
DG 3 Foul Blightspawn
DG 4 Noxious Blightbringer

SM A and SM B are locked in mellee with DG 1, 2 and 3.
DG 2 and 3 are the closest character models to GK C.
Can GK C fire at DG 4 ( DG 4 is in range and in Los for GK C ).

The rule interpretation was that since GK C closest  enemy character were in melle with SM A and B, that they could not fire at DG 4 in the SM/GK shooting phase.

Rules grey bar character text states.
 "Character can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting."

Question is: since DG 2 and 3 are in mellee with SM A and B and can not be targeted should GK C been allowed to fire on DG 4 closest target out of mellee?

Not entirely sure I understand the situation you set up, but here's how it works.

You have three units-your unit (call them A), an enemy unit (call them B) and an enemy character (call them C).

A...........B.........C

You CANNOT shoot C.

B...A..................C

Still can't shoot C.

B..Wall..A............................................C

Still can't shoot C.

It was FAQ'd to be that the character has to be the closest, not just the closest visible.

This means that if ANY enemy unit is closer than the character, you cannot shoot the character without a Sniper rule.

The only exception is if the nearer unit is ALSO a character of 9 or less wounds.

Edit: Combat doesn't change that. Add another friendly unit D.

A...BD........C

Can't shoot C.

Maybe this attempt at spacial placement helps

                           GK C




SM A..DG1..DG2                  DG4
SM B.. DG3

It does not matter if the closest unit is in combat. If they are closer, they prevent ALL characters from being shot, combat or not. Unless the shooting unit is a sniper.

GW does not want you shooting at characters and they make it as difficult as possible.

To all following the discussion,

I understand the sniper and 10 wound comments. They have no bearing on the situation as described.

Can GK C fire on DG 4 during it's shooting phase?

Let me present the question another way.

Unit A is in range of characters 1 and 2 during it's shooting phase.
Character 1 is behind terrain that completely blocks unit A's line of site and is 5 in away.
Character 2 is in Los for Unit A but at a range of 7 in.

Can Unit A fire on character 2?

If character 1 has a wound characteristic of less than 10 he is ignored for the character targeting rule. In that case yes, unit A can fire at character 2. If character 1 has a wound characteristic of 10 or more unit A cant shoot at character 2. It doesnt matter if character 1 is visible to unit A, or not. All that matters is his wounds characteristic.

In combat you can only shoot with pistols (or weapo s that state you can) and must be shot at the closest model to model basis.
For psyker powers they follow the same rules, combat has no affect on them.

Jim,

 DG 2 was the closest unit to GK C.

All,

This started the position of the DG player that no other character could be targeted since it was the closest and could not be fired on since it was in mellee.

So does this mean that no other character under with 9 wounds or less can be targeted?

Here is the wounds refrence from " The BIG FAQ 2".

 TARGETING CHARACTERS An enemy  Character  with a Wounds characteristic of less than 10 can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if it is both visible to the f iring model and it is the closest enemy unit to the firing model. Ignore other enemy  Characters  with a Wounds characteristics of less than 10 when determining if the target is the closest enemy unit to the firing model. T his means that if any other enemy units (other than other  Characters  with a Wounds characteristics of less than 10) are closer, whether they are visible or not, then the enemy  Character  cannot be targeted.

Keep in mind that NO units have 10 or more wounds in the example.
GK C or Unit A in the second example are using direct fire weapons ( Weapons that require Los).           

So the question stands...
If the closest character under 9 wounds is in mellee or is blocked Los does that prevent a unit from firing at that next closest character he can engage?
Keep in mind NO other units are closer, the firing unit is NOT A SNIPER and the character model within range and Los is under 9 wounds.               

As was already stated in p5freak's last post, you can shoot at any characters so long as there isn't a non-character enemy unit (or character with 10+ wounds) nearer than those characters.

If the two closest units are both characters under 10 wounds then you can target either of them, not just the closest.

Unit A character 1 and 2 scenario:

Character 1 ....is not visible to Unit A
                           Can not be selected to fire on due to los.

                       ....is the closest character model to Unit A 
                           Ignore other enemy  Characters  with a Wounds characteristics of less than 10 when determining if the target is the closest enemy unit to the firing model. 

 Does that mean ignore character 2?

If yes does that make any sense to anyone?

If yes load up on under 9w characters keep the lead one in cover and  move the remaining characters were you like with no fear of being shot at.

I really don't understand what you are saying and why you don't understand how it works, I'm very sorry.

Bottom line:

The enemy character cannot be selected as a target of a shooting attack if there are enemy models closer to you than the enemy character, even if the said enemy unit is locked in combat.

The character targetting rule does not provide exceptions for units that are locked in combat when determining proximity.

Case:
There are my units A & B, and enemy units X & Y.
Unit A and unit X are locked in combat, 9" away from unit B.
Enemy unit Y is a character, and it is 10" away from unit B.
Unit B does not have sniper type weapon.
Unit A does not fall back.
Unit B cannot declare shooting attack as it has no eligible target to shoot at.

If you can't understand what I am saying then you are sorry Stux . As it happens I agree with p5's response and understood his logic, please drive through.

P. S. I to am sorry

It took me a while to understand what they are doing in 8th edition with shooting characters. I think I asked all the same questions trying to come up with a way to miraculously shoot a character, where there was an enemy unit (legal or not) in the way.

So for determining if you are allowed to shoot the noxious blightbringer (a painful thorn). This is how I finally wrapped my head around it.

1. Pretend that the melee isn't a melee. Melee does not change the targeting rules for characters.
2. Pretend that LOS blocking walls don't matter, its also not going to change the targeting rules for characters.
3. Assuming 1 & 2... Is that noxious blightbringer the closest enemy unit, other than another enemy character of less than 10 wounds? If yes... then shoot him. If no... then you got gamesworkshopped with rules, you need to maneuver yourself into a different position to shoot him.

To answer your questions
No you should not have been allowed to shoot the blightbringer
Yes you can ignore enemy characters (of less than 10 wounds) to shoot the blightbringer.
No Don't load up on under 10 wound characters to screen other characters
yes bring 10+ wound characters to screen under 10 wound characters.
Does it make any sense.... yes in a twisted painful sense
Do I like it? NOPE.

thoughts?

Thanks dazzle, guess I've just been workshopped!
Gets my vote for fix this