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Yes, GK suck. What battlefield roles do they excel at (even if they suck in comparison to other things).

Long down the road, when I'm done building my Scion army, I'm considering picking up Deathwatch and/or GK. About 1000 points worth, that I could supplement with the completed Scions.

They are kind of multiroll. Every unit has at a minimum a storm bolter in for shooting. Plus D3 damage CC weapons. They are pretty good at killing chaff units. They aren't bad against other marines. Or tyranids.

They are really bad at anti vehical (almost no weapons for killing vehicals in the army except daemon hammers. They are also bad against strong armor saves.

With the CA rumors though - they are about to be quite good.

Man, I haven't looked at the GK rules in years, just looked up the terminator stats. They were so much more powerful back in 5th edition its nuts. They had str 6 power swords, and weren't they BS5/WS5? I remember carving through Tyranid and Ork armies with my 3 land raider army, with a terminator squad in one, and one HQ and one Strike squad in each of the others. They were hopelessly outnumbered, but they were so damn powerful it was alright anyway.

They appear to have fallen on some hard times :(

Grey Knights are your basic heavy infantry specialists with smite and deny. They are good at killing light infantry, they have the tools to kill characters and monstrous creatures.

Where they would excel is a deep striking assault squad that pops into your opponent's back line and is hard to dislodge. Paladins with their 3 wounds are pretty tough.

That said, they won't be much use without a drastic reduction in cost via CA 2018. Looking forward to getting an answer to this question.

GK have high amounts of dakka as just about every model has a storm bolter. They don't kill tanks well, but especially if they get cheap Terminators/Paladins they will handle hordes just fine.

Grey knights have a single build right now that doesn't auto lose casual games. Basically play only GMDK and even then you won't do great, bit at least you are a little less overcosted than the rest of your army

The can deal with weak infantry is only true if you play without points. When you check how much a unit of 10 strikes or 10 termintors cost, and how much the chaff they are killing cost it just does not work well for GK. In most games vs something like old orcs or IG, a GK player will wipe out 10-20 models of chaff, and then on his opponent turn his army gets wiped out or crippled in to no longer working.

A good anti chaff unit has to be either costed like the chaff it is killing or super resilient. A SB armed dude seems awesome with his special melee weapon and baby smite till you notice that 3x5 strikes cost start hiting the cost of a castellan.

They do have nice model though. Look better then other marines, specially the primaris.

Not much I can add to whats previously been said except watch this space. We now have it confirmed that GK are getting a points drop in chapter approved.

Also you will get some decent mileage out of synergising them with your scions.

Dreadnought with Astral aim psychic power allows it to hide behind cover and still hit anything in range without line of sight. Storm raven with interceptors in can hold the table turn one then disembark turn 2 and shunt in with GMDK deepstriking for re-rolls while your scions drop in giving you a mean beta strike.

You will have some decent options to play with.

 Nithaniel wrote:
Not much I can add to whats previously been said except watch this space. We now have it confirmed that GK are getting a points drop in chapter approved.

Also you will get some decent mileage out of synergising them with your scions.

Dreadnought with Astral aim psychic power allows it to hide behind cover and still hit anything in range without line of sight. Storm raven with interceptors in can hold the table turn one then disembark turn 2 and shunt in with GMDK deepstriking for re-rolls while your scions drop in giving you a mean beta strike.

You will have some decent options to play with.

Until you realize that scions are just better grey knights at every job grey knights do, save magic, which usually sucks.

 Jaxler wrote:
Grey knights have a single build right now that doesn't auto lose casual games. Basically play only GMDK and even then you won't do great, bit at least you are a little less overcosted than the rest of your army

You will do a lot better just spamming strike squads with like voldus and other cheaper beatsticks.

Elite mono armies just suck in 8th edition. A total rules rewrite is need to correct this. Unfortunately you will just get faq’d up and nothing will change.

Anyone willing to bet that GK are still trash post update?

Pancakey wrote:
Elite mono armies just suck in 8th edition. A total rules rewrite is need to correct this. Unfortunately you will just get faq’d up and nothing will change.

Anyone willing to bet that GK are still trash post update?

I would put my bets on GK still being the worst army in 8th 40K. Unless what the price reduction would be 33% off cpmpared to now accross the whole codex except maybe GMNDK.

 Jaxler wrote:


Until you realize that scions are just better grey knights at every job grey knights do, save magic, which usually sucks.

While I agree with this mostly I have had issues dealing with screens in cover. Even tac squads and scouts in cover are resilient to massed stormbolter fire.

Generaly we're great at cracking screens with mini smites and stormbolter fire, the odd vortex also does great against turtling castlers but once the screens are cracked its hard to get the heavy hitters in to combat.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
Elite mono armies just suck in 8th edition. A total rules rewrite is need to correct this. Unfortunately you will just get faq’d up and nothing will change.

Anyone willing to bet that GK are still trash post update?

I would put my bets on GK still being the worst army in 8th 40K. Unless what the price reduction would be 33% off cpmpared to now accross the whole codex except maybe GMNDK.

Actually, if we go by tournament results, GK are in a better place than Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and Necrons.

This is largely due to the availability of allies, but it doesn't change the fact that GK are performing on the whole better than these factions.

Regardless.

Grey Knight terminators might be better than regular terminators. If they are 26 points - including wargear - that's not bad at all.

Ultimately, though, they don't have a specific thing that you build around. If GK are suddenly good, it'll be because 3x Grand Master Nemesis Dreadknights are viable, with fill in terminators or paladins. Then you use your other 999 points to build out your imperial guard.

In this game (ITC Rules) you need to be able to last till the end of the game (I.E. not get tabled) and have ability to score lots of points.

GK don’t last very well (expensive with few numbers, and not very tough units) and they don’t have good ways to increase chances to score points, and they don’t have good easy access and synergy with better CP producers to allow them to hyper burn CP to allow them to make up for the other short comings.

At one point Psychic power was supposed to be the place they could really see a power equalizer but it was nerfed down stopping them from doing that.

If they CA allow them to drastically reduce cost in the points for Strike Troops, and Termi Troops, it should shift them to maybe get to a point where they are more viable.

But the CA spoiler didn’t address that.. It seems to be address elites, and HQ. So GK might still be in the basement.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
Grey knights have a single build right now that doesn't auto lose casual games. Basically play only GMDK and even then you won't do great, bit at least you are a little less overcosted than the rest of your army

You will do a lot better just spamming strike squads with like voldus and other cheaper beatsticks.

I don't really get voldus as a character, he is less resilient then Draigo, he is technicly a batter caster, but you don't want to cast most of the GK spells anyway, so what is the point. I would get him if he was like less then 2/3 of draigo cost, but he is not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reemule wrote:


If they CA allow them to drastically reduce cost in the points for Strike Troops, and Termi Troops, it should shift them to maybe get to a point where they are more viable.

But the CA spoiler didn’t address that.. It seems to be address elites, and HQ. So GK might still be in the basement.

Lets say become really cheap 16pts for a strike. Would normal marines be good if they all had stormbolters? DW has the stuff already and primaris in squads, and they aren't beating everyone left and right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pancakey wrote:
Elite mono armies just suck in 8th edition. A total rules rewrite is need to correct this. Unfortunately you will just get faq’d up and nothing will change.

Anyone willing to bet that GK are still trash post update?

Eldar run as inari run just fine. Same elite units as craftworld eldar, you just get extra rules and the CWE rules overlap so you are often double dipping on stuff. Don't even have to use DE, not that there is anthing bad about vect agents, or harlis. And their stuff is elite, a reaper or s spear does not run costing 5pts with gear.

I don't feel 17 point strike does well either.

25 point GK Termis would be a game changer I think.

I quite enjoy using a patrol detachment as allies for my guard, GMDK with both guns tele-pack and first to the fray, a 10man strike squad and a venerable rifle dreadnought. The GMDK and strike squad drop in turn 2 and make use of the 2 psybolt ammo/onslaught stratagems and if they get lucky with the rerolls they might get the charge though you can't relie on it, they use sanctuary and hammerhand respectively, the venerable stays back with astral aim and wisdom of the ancient if I'm flush with cp. Not crazy effective but by not having more units makes the most use of stratagems and powers for maximum punch with out having units about with powers they can't use.
Depending on the changes coming up I might drop the 10 man strikes to 5 man and get a 10 man squad of interceptors and give the GMDK gate in order to bloody noses turn one. Though as others have said you either need to hit a pricey target or wait for the enemy to be thinned due to their poor durability for their price which isn't great for 500pts of your army.

Karol wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
Grey knights have a single build right now that doesn't auto lose casual games. Basically play only GMDK and even then you won't do great, bit at least you are a little less overcosted than the rest of your army

You will do a lot better just spamming strike squads with like voldus and other cheaper beatsticks.

I don't really get voldus as a character, he is less resilient then Draigo, he is technicly a batter caster, but you don't want to cast most of the GK spells anyway, so what is the point. I would get him if he was like less then 2/3 of draigo cost, but he is not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reemule wrote:


If they CA allow them to drastically reduce cost in the points for Strike Troops, and Termi Troops, it should shift them to maybe get to a point where they are more viable.

But the CA spoiler didn’t address that.. It seems to be address elites, and HQ. So GK might still be in the basement.

Lets say become really cheap 16pts for a strike. Would normal marines be good if they all had stormbolters? DW has the stuff already and primaris in squads, and they aren't beating everyone left and right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pancakey wrote:
Elite mono armies just suck in 8th edition. A total rules rewrite is need to correct this. Unfortunately you will just get faq’d up and nothing will change.

Anyone willing to bet that GK are still trash post update?

Eldar run as inari run just fine. Same elite units as craftworld eldar, you just get extra rules and the CWE rules overlap so you are often double dipping on stuff. Don't even have to use DE, not that there is anthing bad about vect agents, or harlis. And their stuff is elite, a reaper or s spear does not run costing 5pts with gear.

Voldus is great because he hits like a draigo for 50 points less. It's also nice to have a character with a lot of spells on them so you are always casting all your spells in a turn. For me - I give all my Strikes ether hammer hand of GOI. Really it's just that he costs much less than Draigo and still hits really hard with a flat 3 2+ to hit hammer. draigo is better and with some points drops on GK units I think Draigo will become auto include. Reroll all hits is really nice.

Pancakey wrote:
Elite mono armies just suck in 8th edition. A total rules rewrite is need to correct this. Unfortunately you will just get faq’d up and nothing will change.

Anyone willing to bet that GK are still trash post update?

Mono armies are whatever. Don't play them, Imperium don't work that way.

I think GK look really exciting with cheap Terminators, though. Might be fun to run some GKs.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
Elite mono armies just suck in 8th edition. A total rules rewrite is need to correct this. Unfortunately you will just get faq’d up and nothing will change.

Anyone willing to bet that GK are still trash post update?

I would put my bets on GK still being the worst army in 8th 40K. Unless what the price reduction would be 33% off cpmpared to now accross the whole codex except maybe GMNDK.

GK with allies from IG/AM is much better than GK alone.
Necrons is the worst army out there atm. No allies in sight, but formations could change it all.

meleti wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
Elite mono armies just suck in 8th edition. A total rules rewrite is need to correct this. Unfortunately you will just get faq’d up and nothing will change.

Anyone willing to bet that GK are still trash post update?

Mono armies are whatever. Don't play them, Imperium don't work that way.

.

join date 2017.

Tell me more.

Pancakey wrote:

meleti wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
Elite mono armies just suck in 8th edition. A total rules rewrite is need to correct this. Unfortunately you will just get faq’d up and nothing will change.

Anyone willing to bet that GK are still trash post update?

Mono armies are whatever. Don't play them, Imperium don't work that way.

.

join date 2017.

Tell me more.

I get what he/she is saying though. 8th edition has been a huge shake up, I don't personally like it but it seems like GW is designing in a way where there are only 6 factions: Imperium, Chaos, Tyranids, Tau, Necron, Aeldari, Orks and everything else are just sub factions.

And joined date means nothing... I have been playing 40k for a couple decades at this point but I never bothered to make a dakka dakka account as I frequented other forums,

GK can get an abundance of storm bolters but lack anti-tank.
I'd mix GK with AM, at least one level32 battalion and some anti-tank.
What would AM players suggest (besides Hellhounds)?

GK are fine. Just play guard. - warahmmer community 2018

 Nithaniel wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:


Until you realize that scions are just better grey knights at every job grey knights do, save magic, which usually sucks.

While I agree with this mostly I have had issues dealing with screens in cover. Even tac squads and scouts in cover are resilient to massed stormbolter fire.

Generaly we're great at cracking screens with mini smites and stormbolter fire, the odd vortex also does great against turtling castlers but once the screens are cracked its hard to get the heavy hitters in to combat.

Vortex only works on the closest model, not the unit. It's horrible.

Grey knights suck at kill chaff in s points per wound perspective.

Mini smite is horrible unless you can single out 1 model with your whole army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Pancakey wrote:
Elite mono armies just suck in 8th edition. A total rules rewrite is need to correct this. Unfortunately you will just get faq’d up and nothing will change.

Anyone willing to bet that GK are still trash post update?

I would put my bets on GK still being the worst army in 8th 40K. Unless what the price reduction would be 33% off cpmpared to now accross the whole codex except maybe GMNDK.

GK with allies from IG/AM is much better than GK alone.
Necrons is the worst army out there atm. No allies in sight, but formations could change it all.

I tried this. Problem is grey knights suck compared to AM alternatives and you'll eventually run mono guard because it works better.