Switch Theme:

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 4th edition - thoughts?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Hello all

Now pleased to receive my shiny new copy of 4th edition to go alongside my library of 1st and 2nd edition.

First impressions (IMO):

Appearance: It looks fantastic, the art is great and very fitting, the introductory images expeically are very evocative and the character classes are great.

Tone: Striking a lovely balance between the really old lore and the more modern lore I am impressed, nice melding of things like Cosntant Dracenfels and the most recent of the Elf pantheon. Lot of humour as well as darkness - very good.

Game: Very much based on 1st/2nd ediiton with some interesting new tweeks, still need to get my head round the Successlevels system and some other bits and pieces but in general seems to have streamlined and enhanced previous version. Elves very powerful (think 1st ed+) but dwarves also good. Interesting that much more (and welcome) focus on social staus but this does come into one of the things I donlt quite see working.

Money: Starting money is massively reduced form 1st and 2nd Ed, at the high end Noble gets 1GC and a merchant a bit more but thats it, most will have a few silver and all prices about the same as previous editions - now I can see the argument for making players poor to make them actually adventure as well as not bank rolling the rest of the party. But there are also a few rules which make this element not work for me.

In order to maintain your status you need to appear and spend as if you are at that level, so a merchant is expected to spend at least 2 Silver a day just on food, drink and lodgings, a Noble more and they simply don't have cash for more than a few days. In addition in the (optional) down time rules which are really interesting, at the end of your downtime you loose all money you had!

There are some specific "endeavours" to keep or earn some but otherwise you start the next gaming session without any money but are still expected to spend to maintain your social level..... I think this is one element or group will house rule both for a bit more starting money and not emptying the characters pockets at the start of the session. Interested to hear what others make of this element. Elves also suffer a big (and themeatic) penalty in downtime but does it help to balance their pure stat power - not sure.

Background: Very much Warhammer, all very focussed on Reikland in the rulebook which does mean the intitial character classes need to fit into that and there is not really much customisation in built for the non humans in the Empire/Reikland - either resident or visiting. That being said the book does have plenty of suggestions to customise things, but its not there if you don't know the world.

All in all very happy with my purchase and looking forward to more from Cubicle 7.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/06 13:19:23


"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

Certainly looks very nice from what I've seen, and I've enjoyed the freebie adventures offered so far == always easy enough to borrow the setting or ideas for any system.


... from what I've read though it does seem a bit clunky possibly ?

see :

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads%2Fwarhammer-fantasy-roleplay-4th-ed-the-playtest-thread.834356%2F&fbclid=IwAR3iKVw8GOEG5HI8jBy8TnrBZVYKEwjUMCLhcb2mULh01oevPWID5pMKP1M



The system really is the Pathfinder of WFRP. Which to me is an intense let-down ever since WotC scored gold with 5th edition. Everything about WFRP4 is maddingly fiddly and cluttered. You can't spend your XP without cross-referencing your individual score to one out of two tables, with every frickin' individual point of XP costing different things. You can't pick up a weapon other than hand weapon without having a Quality or three to check out. You can't make an attack without (very soon) having a critical table chock full of special keywords, each with their own rules, that isn't detailed right there in the table. The suggestion to "You could always print little cards with all those rules on" is not a positive - if I wanted to play cards or do puzzles,. If they expect me to follow the full PC generation rules for NPCs they are funny - the niggling little special rules for each and every talent is a nightmare for a player, who has exactly one (1) character to learn, and as the GM I have... more - so yeah, that was what drove me away from d20 in the first place.

And that presumes the basic combat engine works, and I'm afraid the jury's still out on that.

As Serket says, you roll for Weapon Skill (your Melee skill actually). Subtract the ten's die of your roll from the ten's die of your skill value to get your Success Levels. Your skill value is constantly modified, never the same. +10 from this, -20 from that, and then +10 every time you previously succeeded (until you don't). Visibility. Cover. Ground conditions. Outnumbering. Facing. Weapon Length. Called shots. Position. Space. Previous injuries. Psychology. Fifth "You get disadvantage" Edition it is not.

The GM does the same for the enemy target. If you get 3 SLs and the opponent gets -1 SL you win by 4 SLs. Remember this.

Reverse the dice to get the hit location. (Armor is by hit location)

If you roll doubles, roll again. Twice. First for another hit location, and then for the actual crit. The result can look like this: "Gain 2 Bleeding Conditions as your arm is mangled. Gain 1 Stunned Condition and suffer a Torn Muscle (Minor) injury. Take a Hard (–20) Endurance Test or gain the Unconscious Condition." This happens to you if you failed - your double was over your (modified) skill score - and the enemy if you were successful. And oh, deduct 3 Wounds.

Bleeding means "Lose 1 Wound at the end of every Round, ignoring all modifiers. Further, suffer a penalty of –10 to any Tests to resist Festering Wounds, Minor Infection, or Blood Rot" all three of which in turn have definitions later in the book.

Stunned says (an excerpt): "You are incapable of taking an Action on your turn but are capable of half your normal movement. You can defend yourself in opposed Tests — but not with Language (Magick). You also suffer a –10 penalty to all Tests. If you have any Stunned Conditions, any opponent trying to strike you in Melee Combat gains +1 Advantage before rolling the attack."

Torn Muscle (minor) is four paragraphs on page 179. Plus a reference to the rules for Amputated parts.

Unconscious is simple. Really. Honest.

Back to your attack, and calculating damage. You used an axe, doing Strength Bonus plus 4 damage, so 7, say. Plus your SLs (4, remember?). So 11. Minus the enemy's Toughness Bonus, say 3. You hit the enemy in the body location. Say he wears a leather jack, so its armour point applies. 11-3-1=7. (This particular bit is familiar to every WFRP1/2 fan)

So he loses 7 Wounds. If he now lost all his remaining Wounds he's Prone (another condition with special rules). If your damage was more than his remaining Wounds, that's a critical (potentially a second one). Remember to apply -20 to the crit roll if the damage didn't send him to negative Toughness Bonus or more, not that you ever record negative Wounds.

Since you won, you gain one Advantage, which stacks until they don't. Since he lost, he lose any Advantage he's got.

But wait! There's more.

You might not have used an Axe after all. You might have used a Pick Axe. That means you can switch out your success levels for the unit die of your attack roll. (If you roll 37 and have 50% you normally score 2 SL, but now you can treat that as 7 SL) Plus 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 also counts as crits as well as the ordinary doubles (11, 22, 33 and 44). The GM needs to remember this for monsters with pick axes.

But wait! There's more.

You might have a Talent (Reversal) where instead of gaining 1 Advantage when winning an opposed test (like the one we just executed), you take the opponent's. This also grants you one extra SL (per level of the talent) when you defend (we just attacked, mind). Or you might have a Talent (Distract) which allows you to force an opposed Test (yes, one more) which, if you win, you deny your opponent the ability to accrue Advantage. Two examples of how Talents modify the combat rules in highly specific ways. Not sure how likely you'll have both, but if you do, they do both apply.

Monsters don't have Talents for the most part. They get Traits instead. So that's another long list of little rules to learn. So monsters don't get Riposte, they get to be Champions instead. Ruleswise, however, they're exactly the same. Almost. Monsters aren't restricted to Fast weapons like heroes are.

And that's it.

Wait! I almost forgot to count the die rolls. Attack. Defense. Rolling a double means rolling a critical or fumble. Which means a separate hit location roll. So that makes four, just like Serket said. Except both can roll a double, so that's six. And if the attacker wins, damage can cause a critical too. Eight. And criticals can trigger more rolls. (Not to mention possible extra rolls activated by special rules from talents. I actually honestly don't know. Then there's traits, qualities, flaws, and conditions.)

For one attack. Now it is the monster's turn. That one combat round. For a simple one-on-one duel.


Now I'm sure that's worst case or a wee bit hyperbolic -- and TBF any system can be made to look a bit clumsy depending upon how it's presented.


So currently I'm not sure I can really justify it -- tempting as it is.

Not really used any/much of my 2nd edition stuff -- although I intend to and we're quite happy tootling along with our 1st/current edition P'finder, Starfinder and house ruled d20 star wars.

.. although it would be nice to actually be playing a system that is still in production -- s'finder campaign is to follow/yet to happen.

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
Don’t allow the cynical commercialisation of Christmas to obscure its authentic spiritual message about how weird your family is.

 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Thanks very much for the linkage - off to read...

The Success levels thing I mentioned seems a bit complex but not sure yet

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

note the post dates there though -- much of that off the early version.



The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
Don’t allow the cynical commercialisation of Christmas to obscure its authentic spiritual message about how weird your family is.

 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Have the physical books been released yet?
   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

yes, seen a fair few in the wild, so to speak.


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
Don’t allow the cynical commercialisation of Christmas to obscure its authentic spiritual message about how weird your family is.

 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Ashitaka wrote:
Have the physical books been released yet?


I have mine (Element games) - it does look lovely, lots of great images and some new lore

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Horrific Hive Tyrant






That combat sounds like a fething nightmare to be a player in let alone dm.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/13 01:24:37



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
My P&M Blog - Building My Nid Army - Kitbashes and Magnetization

 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider






I have played and collected every edition; Just seen a few things online..

How did they handle the destruction of the old world?

Anything new rules wise that sticks out.. Good or bad?

On my Christmas list but may just wait and see... that is a common theme with me anything anymore... (star wars taught me that)

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






This game is set in the Old World, so they ... didn't handle the destruction at all.

The combat looks similar to 2nd edition WFRP and also Dark Heresy. In practise it's easy;
"OK, my WS is 47. I rolled 73. That's 3 degrees of success. I get Plus 10 for a careful attack, but my opponent is behind a hedge for -20, so it's 2 degrees of success overall". In fact, our GM used to just ask for the "raw" DoS (roll vs WS) and apply the modifiers in secret, telling us if we'd hit or not.

The only extra steps there are the target making a roll too, and the critical rules (in older editions, going down to 0 Wounds didn't drop you Prone, it just meant that any additional damage inflicted critical hits. This system makes criticals happen "early".

Also, I bet most of those modifiers won't all be applying at once - nor will the Talents if it's properly WFRP (you'll be crap at the beginning; once you're good enough to have a Talent or two you should have got the hang of the rules )
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 Genoside07 wrote:
I have played and collected every edition; Just seen a few things online..

How did they handle the destruction of the old world?

Anything new rules wise that sticks out.. Good or bad?

On my Christmas list but may just wait and see... that is a common theme with me anything anymore... (star wars taught me that)


I put some of this in the OP but:

its set in 2510 so before the Storm of Chaos or End Times dpepending on which version (if any) you want to run in your game.

Combat is more finincky not sure yet if good or bad, clever or time consuming.
Starting money is pretty much non existant
Big chapter of down time
New and additional "Fate Point mechanism - Resolve to help balance stats (Elves are 1st ed or better versions)
You start with alot more advances than in 1st/2nd.



"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
 
Forum Index » Board Games, Roleplaying Games & Card Games
Go to: