Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]

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**Gordon Shumway**

I presume based on the preview that none of the legions will getanything exclusive.

**Gordon Shumway**

Arachnofiend wrote:
I love how few people are actually capable of reading lol

The only factions that have had their faction-specific rules previewed are Black Legion and the Renegade Chapters. The Iron Warriors stuff was Chaos Space Marines. The Night Lords stuff was Chaos Space Marines. The Word Bearers stuff was Chaos Space Marines. Each of those articles previewed detachments that any CSM army can use but happen to be particularly flavorful for the faction in question.

I personally disagree with WHC's decision to run the previews like this, but the fact is that we have no idea what the IW, NL, and WB benefits look like.

Do you really think the legions will get individual benefits? If they do, and GW decided to not preview them with the legion articles, that is full of stupid. Odds are the legions won't be getting anything new specific to them.

**Gordon Shumway**

Arachnofiend wrote:
Gordon Shumway wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
I love how few people are actually capable of reading lol

The only factions that have had their faction-specific rules previewed are Black Legion and the Renegade Chapters. The Iron Warriors stuff was Chaos Space Marines. The Night Lords stuff was Chaos Space Marines. The Word Bearers stuff was Chaos Space Marines. Each of those articles previewed detachments that any CSM army can use but happen to be particularly flavorful for the faction in question.

I personally disagree with WHC's decision to run the previews like this, but the fact is that we have no idea what the IW, NL, and WB benefits look like.

Do you really think the legions will get individual benefits? If they do, and GW decided to not preview them with the legion articles, that is full of stupid. Odds are the legions won't be getting anything new specific to them.

Considering the fact that almost all of the main loyalist chapters got their own specialist detachments in the first Vigilus book, yeah, that's what I'm assuming. Do you really think that only Black Legion and the Fallen will get their own specialist detachments?

Well, sort of. In the BL focus article they said that BL got bespoke rules because they were "the stars of the show in Vigilus Ablaze". I'm guessing the Fallen get theirs just to fix the whole "we forgot to bring our rides" problem they had with the codex. I hope you are right, but I somehow doubt it based on what we have seen already with the Legion focus articles.

**Gordon Shumway**

The look of the decimators make up for the little bit of extra umpf the contemptors provide. I like the contemptors too, so I run both. Decimators in the back shooting line with the other shooting engines (deredeo and leviathon), contemptors moving forward with the blood slaughterers. I wish the decimators and contemptors roles were reversed though as the decimator really looks like he wants to punch someone in the face. The Levi might get more of a frontline spot now that havocs have a new pair of shoes.

**Gordon Shumway**

It's the "not a competitive player" part. Turn one destroy all the things! really hurts this edition--it's not an American meta thing, it's a rules thing. I get that they wanted it to play faster, but when the game is over in two rounds, I sort of feel cheated out of an actual game.

**Gordon Shumway**

I would say yes, but that is dependent on a lot of factors. What detatchments are you running to get CP and/or buffs? What leader characters are you running to get auras and buffs? What other units do you want surrounding your deredeo? What, if any, sort of theme or narrative do you want with your army? 8th ed. Is fantastic in some respects (it allows for pretty much whatever sort of army you want to run to run at a low competitive level quite well. It also sucks in that if you are running at a turbocharged level, everything is going to burn out by turn two.

**Gordon Shumway**

TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
I think this is a typo, should only be able to do double plasma on 5 mans.

2 in the squad, 1 Combi-Plasma on the champion.

Not in a five man unit. One in the squad, one on the champ. If the unit has ten models, two in the squad plus the champ can.

**Gordon Shumway**

vaklor4 wrote:
Rydria wrote:
vaklor4 wrote:
Rydria wrote:
How do noise marine (troops) compare to the new buffed chaos space marines ?

What the heck do you mean buffed? Nothing buffed space marines. They just got adjacent buffs that every other unit in the codex can basically take, aside from a couple Red Corsairs things.

Noise Marines are fantastic, however I think they contend too much with Combi-Bolter chosen at this point. But they still pack a punch, and are a great Endless Cacophony target if you take a squad of 10 or more.
I was under the impression that the beta bolter rule became official (though noise marines can benefit from this also) and the chaincannon now exists.

Did I say it's the best unit in the book? No. I said it's a good pick. Don't be one of those guys who assumes the 99% is terrible.

I think he was responding to your initial question about what buffed marines. In other words he was doing the opposite of assuming they were terrible.

**Gordon Shumway**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Actually just a thought, now with recycling available on marines and Cultists, could we run a horde list based around that?

With one cheap brigade and two RC Batallions you could get 60 cultist and 30 CSM. 90 recyclable models with 32 command points to recycle with. So, sure.

**Gordon Shumway**

Latro_ wrote:
did anyone catch d6 evolutions 50+ mortal wound black legion lord with a chainsword?

Is that a video or website? Citations or links would be helpful.

**Gordon Shumway**

sturguard wrote:
How much are Kytans?

410pts

**Gordon Shumway**

Azuza001 wrote:
Are people playing their oblits at 115 or 65? At 115 they seem over priced when a venom crawler is 15 pts more, but 65 they are stupid good. I have been using mine at 115 because i dont want to cause an issue with my gaming group.

Come on gw, at least give us THAT answer, why are you making us wait for the big FAQ for this?!?

Maybe they are waiting for some info to see what they should ultimately be priced at?

**Gordon Shumway**

drakerocket wrote:
I suppose the fact that there is no clear winner among them might be something we call 'balance'....

IMO, the clear winner is blood slaughterers. Better WS, better movement, more attacks. Only downside is it must be <khorne> and is forgeworld, so some might balk at it.

**Gordon Shumway**

Lemondish wrote:
Eldenfirefly wrote:
Erm, I am not sure if you can get the Kytan Ravager into a soulforged detachment which also has a venomcrawler and a maulerfiend.

Either you go with a batallion or spearhead. Then you can have LD, Venomcrawler, and mauler fiend in them as part of a soulforged pack detachment. But then your Kytan Ravager has to be in a seperate super heavy auxilliary detachment, and will not be part of that soul forged detachment.

Or, you have a supreme command detachment. And you put your LD and Kytan Ravager into that. And they can be in a soulforged detachment. But then, your maulerfiend and your venomcrawler will not be part of that detachment. Because a supreme command detachment cannot have heavy support.

You have to choose I am afraid. You can't have everything in the same detachment because the Kytan ravager is a superheavy while the venom crawler and the maulerfiend are heavy support choices. Actually, I would suggest putting the Kytan Ravager into a seperate superheavy Auxilliary detachment. Just cast warp time on him. That way, you won't waste his guns. Those 8 shots can do a lot of damage. They are str 8 and d2 each. If you use the soulforged pack strategem to make him advance 2d6 and charge, its great, but then you can't shoot your guns because they are heavy, they are not assault. Warptiming a Kytan ravager is probably going to achieve the same exact result (turn 1 charge) plus you still get to use your guns.

Your venomcrawler benefits alot more from the advance and charge strategem because its guns are assault. So, the venomcrawler can move advance, still shoot all its weapons, and then charge into combat. I think both Kytan Ravager and Lord of Skulls have to be Khorne. They are Khorne Daemon Engines, if I am not wrong. In any case, its not like you can use cacophony on them just because they are slanaash. Cacophony strategem can only be used on infantry units.

Honestly, if you want to further buff them, its with stuff like auras, psychic. The key strategem that works on them (regardless of mark) is daemonforge strategem, and that's probably all you will ever need. The only protective strategem I know of is the iron within iron without strategem that the iron warriors legion has. It gives your Kytan ravager or LOS a 6+ FNP when you activate it. Believe me, on a titanic engine that has over 20 wounds, a 6+ FNP can end up saving quite a few wounds if your opponent focus fire on it. It does require you to go Iron warriors though for at least your Kytan Ravager.

It's an extra CP, but run two Detachments as specialist.

Unfortunately, you can't run the same specialist detatchment twice. Pg 160 of Vigilus "Each Specialist Detatchment Strategum can only be used once per battle".

**Gordon Shumway**

You can do that with the LOD as well, just not with the smoke. And one he is in combat, less likely to get sniped/killed. Of course unless they want to kill him, at which point all the other machines are ready to pounce. It's a trap.

**Gordon Shumway**

If it's going alone, go with the defiler. Venomcrawler will get squished much faster. If the sorc. Is just going to hang with the termies, use termie armor. You don't need mobility with him. Really, if he is just going with the termies, you could probably get by with running him naked unless you want him to deepstrike.

**Gordon Shumway**

Yeah, but then it is missing out on legion traits, isn't it?

**Gordon Shumway**

What would an all daemon engine list look like in the meta these days? Do most people bring primarily anti-vehicle lists? Are all those anti-Castellean lists suitable for taking on multiple foes that want to punch them in the face?

**Gordon Shumway**

Yeah, but the lists take a while to readjust. They will still be there till someone knocks them down. You really think the VC is that good? I would almost be tempted to take a 2nd Slaughter detatchment.

**Gordon Shumway**

Not saying I agree with it, but maybe they are saying that the codex entries can take weapons allowed under codex weapons. Different codex allows for different weapons...again, not saying I agree with it.

**Gordon Shumway**

If you are willing to wait a month or two, Subtle Discord is making some pretty sweet over/under combi weapons. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page-73

**Gordon Shumway**

BrianDavion wrote:
Gordon Shumway wrote:
If you are willing to wait a month or two, Subtle Discord is making some pretty sweet over/under combi weapons. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page-73

once that happens I might order me some and do up some chosen.

edit: ohh dfouble plus he's in canada so no over the top euro prices yay

If you haven't seen his stuff yet, check it out. I've used his rhino trim kits and they are amazing. Here is his actual website http://thedarkworks.bigcartel.com