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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Warlord's new patrol boat skirmish game

picked this up yesterday at FLGS after a friend provided a few intro games, its not perfect but its enjoyable, reminds me of Sky Gallons of Mars as much as anything in many ways.

may have missed it but not see a modifier for being on the targets beam or a modifier for stern/bow angles, but otherwise there is much that makes sense, faster moving craft are harder to hit that slower ones, if you are moving faster you will have a hard time hitting, it takes time to speed up and slow down etc.

base system is good, using the "dice in the bag" activation system Warlord likes which works well to break the turn up (some small craft activate in groups so you don't get to swamp the back with them), movement is fixed distances which on one hand works well (i.e. slow speed is "x", not "up to "x") but would prefer the option to at least start with an escort matching speed with what its escorting - minor point really.

combat seems to work well, 1d10 for each weapon, base 5 or less to hit, various modifiers up and down, but using a d10 gives decent scope. damage is pretty simple though somewhat abstracted, weapons have a number of dice damage they do, total how many dice you did from all your attacks, then roll them - that comes off the targets hull rating, get that to zero and they sink.

this seems to work well for most of the weapons in the game, machine guns, 20mm cannons and so on up to about 4" guns IIRC - larger weapons in effect simply couldn't track such small targets and larger ships fighting are outside the scope of the game. so you can gradually pepper something with machine guns, light cannon rounds etc.

the issue is torpedos, which d 16d6 damage if they hit, now on average if that hits a patrol boat its going down - which makes a lot of sense, I just find it hard to image a small craft holed below the waterline surviving in fighting trim, and a merchant holed below the waterline even if not cracked in half is going to have ongoing issues with flooding. Torpedos however can be considered something of an abstract for game reasons, the chances of hitting a patrol boat with one is pretty remote and they are really there to hit the wallowing targets - the game abstraction avoids lucky one hit kills for the most part so it works.

then there is a nice change from recent Warlod games (test of honour & Blood red skies), this has a proper rulebook, not the intro pamphlet and an 'advanced' rules section - its one book, that includes stats for a lot of units so playable in other scales if you have the models with just the rulebook (Warlords 1/300 models are nice though). The book is more in depth than the usual warlord recent games, there are "Advanced" rules but they are actually more special situation stuff not the recent trend of if you want to actually play the game you will need them - you have stuff like rough seas, radar, air support, submarines (though is a limited way, the focus is patrol boats not convoy hunting with U boats), minefields etc

overall, actually pretty impressed, bought a fleet box and the rulebook, the starter looks nice but not a huge fan of the plastic patrol boats, details are a bit chunky for me, the metal/resin ones are very nice though - this approach means I lack some of the more advanced counters and templates - hopefully available outside the box at some point.

but so far, give this one 8/10, its enjoyable and captures the feel of it, doesn't feel like a sic-fi game with a WW2 skin, the boats feel like boats, as a player you have some control over the random! fun!, seems few "sucks to be you" special rules, I like it
   
Made in ca
Infiltrating Broodlord





Toronto, Ontario

When I first saw the name and who was releasing it, I got really excited for a fleet battle game so I could basically play World of Warships on the tabletop. I was immensely disappointed that it was just patrol boats and other tiny little craft. Lost all interest at that point, but good to hear that that it plays well for what it is.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 creeping-deth87 wrote:
When I first saw the name and who was releasing it, I got really excited for a fleet battle game so I could basically play World of Warships on the tabletop. I was immensely disappointed that it was just patrol boats and other tiny little craft. Lost all interest at that point, but good to hear that that it plays well for what it is.


Well if you want WoW on the table have a look to see if Victory at Sea is about still, plays as a pretty easy going game, if you want a bit more detail (weather effects and a realistic "spread" of shots etc, check out GHQ Micronaughts.

both cover large ships, fleets, single ship actions, can integrate submarines, air cover etc, from real historical scenarios through to more "build a fleet" type of games
   
Made in us
Leutnant





Louisville, KY, USA

leopard wrote:
 creeping-deth87 wrote:
When I first saw the name and who was releasing it, I got really excited for a fleet battle game so I could basically play World of Warships on the tabletop. I was immensely disappointed that it was just patrol boats and other tiny little craft. Lost all interest at that point, but good to hear that that it plays well for what it is.


Well if you want WoW on the table have a look to see if Victory at Sea is about still, plays as a pretty easy going game, if you want a bit more detail (weather effects and a realistic "spread" of shots etc, check out GHQ Micronaughts.

both cover large ships, fleets, single ship actions, can integrate submarines, air cover etc, from real historical scenarios through to more "build a fleet" type of games

Victory At Sea Second Edition is currently in open play testing. "We are intending to publish Victory at Sea in ebook format and send it off to print before Christmas, as promised in our last State of the Mongoose, with the printed edition coming out shortly into 2019."

Play test docs in link below.
http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=121732&sid=7b95da6b965014052300b84ac089e24c

Non-layout version of the scenario book can be found in the September pack.
http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=121554&sid=7b95da6b965014052300b84ac089e24c

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/12 02:17:46


 
   
Made in gb
Fighter Ace





england

Already got me two S boats from wargames illustrated. Wouldn't mind grabbing the game. But I wanna do a gulf war TANKS! modern age first.

And victory at sea was great fun when it was around.
But it's Mongoose...so...yeah...
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

>WOWS
Dear gods, and groganon called me out for being a casual. WOWS is a terrible basis for any historical game as a friend of mine has shown with his attempt. It has no basis in reality bar the units used and has terrible mechanisms for determining damage.

As for Cruel Seas, I was very excited when it was announced, especially as it was set to be a small ship game. Now that the rules are out I feel a bit let down, the movement bands seem like the same bad system X-wing had - the whole "move this much, no more and no less" feels really stupid and limits the tactical options open to the player. A better system would be to give each band a minimal and maximum move. The weapons look varied enough, and fun, but the minimal range baffles me - on some mounts it makes sense but for the most part it doesnt. All said and done though the models are nice, although the two S-Boats I got lack the stern depth charge racks, and the lack of an option to replace the rarely mounted quad 2cm with a single or dual 2cm or a 40mm Bofors is rather annoying.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/581001.page#6570095don't click this link...
8th of the Keepers of the PDF of that RPG which shall not be named. Look not into that which defies decency.
 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in ca
Infiltrating Broodlord





Toronto, Ontario

 master of ordinance wrote:
>WOWS
Dear gods, and groganon called me out for being a casual. WOWS is a terrible basis for any historical game as a friend of mine has shown with his attempt. It has no basis in reality bar the units used and has terrible mechanisms for determining damage.


Oh don't get me wrong, I know that the game is not authentic by any means. It IS a lot of fun though, and definitely got me interested enough in naval warfare to actually want to play that kinda thing on the tabletop.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Austin, TX

now for a test game, here are my painted starter ships
https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2018/12/21/988979_md-Cruel%2C%20Naval%2C%20Seas%2C%20Ships%2C%20World%20War%202.jpg
https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2018/12/21/988980_md-German%20MTBs.jpg
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Oh very nice, not going with the flags on mine but very nicely done
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

@Master: Movement seems elegant and well thought out to me. Can't start and stop an 80' warship on a dime. Plus there aren't many options for orders anyway "ahead one third", " ahead two thirds", "ahead full", "ahead flank". Nor can you turn her super fast either.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 doktor_g wrote:
@Master: Movement seems elegant and well thought out to me. Can't start and stop an 80' warship on a dime. Plus there aren't many options for orders anyway "ahead one third", " ahead two thirds", "ahead full", "ahead flank". Nor can you turn her super fast either.


Inclined to agree, the way the rules for turning are written could be better as its not exactly clear what they mean and the way Warlord have said they are to be played isn't the most obvious way of reading them (both ways of reading them work though).

the only thing I'd like to see is the smaller diesel boats being better able to adjust speed, say +/- 2cm per speed band as they did actually have throttles, the larger steam driven craft as noted answered bells for set speeds.

point being to allow escorts to actually keep station with what they are escorting, also allow anything to start matched speeds with something else thats larger - e.g patrol boats at an 'odd' speed to match a freighter - even if they then cannot return to that speed in game.

a proper turn template would be nicer, ala Dystopian Wars V1 & V2 (not played the most recent), but admit they get in the way and the way Warloard have done the red/yellow arc think easily allows more such arcs to be added if desired and 'its good enough' without getting in the way.

movement is probably one of the strongest aspects of these rules and nice and easy to use
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I really want to like this game

My podcast!
http://chanceofgaming.com/

http://www.adamchance.net/
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 shakespear wrote:
I really want to like this game


same here, it has a nice feel to it, but there are a few niggles, which would have been easy to sort out but for whatever reason Warlord didn't

like the lack of a target aspect modifier in a system that has fire arcs already.

or the way the IJN T-14 torpedo boat is forced to pay for Type 93 Long Lance torpedos it couldn't historically carry and didn't need anyway, and paying a significant premium in a game where the main targets are more or less immune to them...


There are better naval games out there, by a long shot, and they typically include torpedo boats so it wouldn't be hard to use these nice models with the better rules (just ignore the big ships in those rules)
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Scout with Sniper Rifle




Boca Raton Fl

A few friends and I picked up Cruel Seas. I love that you can bring DDs into the fray. I chose the USN and already picked up Trumpeter's Fletcher since there are rules and a point cost for it.

"The world's best swordsman doesn't fear the second best; he fears the worst swordsman, because he can't predict what the idiot will do."-Admiral Honor Harrington (David Weber's take on Twain's original quote) 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Found the larger ships look amazing, and then some swine gets a critical hit at range (as large ships are not hard to hit), and all of a sudden your entire ship is doing nothing next turn and unless it passes a dice test nothing the turn after, during which it will sink.

they seem a bit "eggs in one basket" and could do with something to mitigate critical hits better than smaller craft.

Still getting the IJN Destroyer at some point though
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Dorset, England

I always thought the idea for this was cool, but getting some free boats with WI has seriously made me consider starting this!

I quite like the idea of having some Yankee doodles fighting the Japanese in the Philippines.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I agree with an earlier comment, I wanted this to be a large battleships type game. And coming from Warlord I'd of expected it to be around for a while, and relatively easy to purchase models and books for.
That being said, one of my gaming group has purchased this so I will look to get a game in and make my mind up then.
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





LA

I just found out about this game, the plastic models look really cool for their size and not overly complex too. I feel like i'd actually be able to paint up this set without being overwhelmed. Is this a pretty decent game out of the box? With bolt action you could play a good few games with the starter without too much issue, then add to each force from there.

 
   
Made in de
Poisonous Tomb Scorpion






Me and two friends played a game out of the starter box last night (scenario 3: rescue mission). I can't guarantee that we got all the rules right or really scratched the surface, given that my friend got the box only yesterday, but it seems like a fun game to me. I really like the coastal setting as the added island and shoals gave the game stuff to maneuver around, and the movement rules are interesting in combination with that.

I went and ordered an IJN force right away. Looking forward to more games.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in nz
[MOD]
Villanous Scum






Anyone seen any decent AARs on this?

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire.
Keeping the flame of Babylon 5 A Call to Arms alive, check it out;
Babylon 5 ACTA campaign log
Babylon 5 ACTA Painting log
Backfire wrote:
Nobody kills his dad and participates in genocide just for cosplay.
 
   
Made in ca
Executing Exarch




I'm really not happy with the collision rules. They make a clear delineation between "Collisions" and "Rams". But all that does is cause people to engineer rams in such a way that they end up counted as collisions.

For instance, in a game about a week ago, my opponent knowingly positioned one of his boats in such a way that my own boat would be forced to collide with it during my boat's next activation. If my opponent had attempted to set up a ram, then there would have been a lot of different requirements involved, including experienced crew, and a skill check. But because the rules considered it to only be a collision, it was automatic. In my opinion, the rules should at the very least force the non-active boat to take a skill check to avoid a collision.
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





LA

Eumerin wrote:
I'm really not happy with the collision rules. They make a clear delineation between "Collisions" and "Rams". But all that does is cause people to engineer rams in such a way that they end up counted as collisions.

For instance, in a game about a week ago, my opponent knowingly positioned one of his boats in such a way that my own boat would be forced to collide with it during my boat's next activation. If my opponent had attempted to set up a ram, then there would have been a lot of different requirements involved, including experienced crew, and a skill check. But because the rules considered it to only be a collision, it was automatic. In my opinion, the rules should at the very least force the non-active boat to take a skill check to avoid a collision.


I heard about people doing this as a tactic and it's going to be an annoying problem. Hopefully this is one of the things they'll faq next. I've done some more reading on this game and the initial print run of the rulebook sounds like a serious mess. I'm now thinking about waiting a while until they do another print run of the rulebook and starter with that 10 page faq included in the reprinted book.

 
   
Made in us
Leutnant





Louisville, KY, USA

Well, after initially balking at the idea of yet another game to sit on the shelf unplayed, there's apparently enough traction locally (and luckily NOT from the usual Gamer ADD suspects) to warrant me ordering the starter set. Another player we rarely see out already has his starter, a third has his Soviets ordered (but apparently didn't order the rule book), and a fourth will be placing his order on pay day.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Just finished painting up my first Vosper last night. Need to add a little rust/wear to it...she looks like she's fresh from the boat factory right now. Also, I've got to find a different color scheme besides gray and lighter gray that's still somewhat realistic.

Haven't had a game yet, but the rules seem pretty decent.
   
Made in us
Grovelin' Grot Rigger





We like them (the rules). Just remember, Vospers (and PT boats) and Fairmiles have wood hulls (they don't rust).....

My armies, all fully painted:
Evil Sunz Orks 12000 points
Panzer Grots 5000 points
Necrons 7000 points
LoTD 1750 points 
   
Made in us
Leutnant





Louisville, KY, USA

We're a few games in (and hopefully work schedule will allow more this week). There are some omissions and glosses in the rules, things that could have been handled by removing some two-page art splashed, or tightening up the History and Collecting sections in the second half of the rule book, but overall the game is pretty solid.

About the biggest sonuva with the game is the E-boat sprues. Both S-38 and S-100 come with a 37mm standard, but there's only one 37mm on the sprue. Means you're either scraping the S-38 or running the S-100 with the optional quad 20mm (yeah, you gain extra damage dice, but also lose 20cm of range).

Planning ahead is a big factor. We had a game with three collisions (two "friendly fire") due to Boat A moving into Boat B's path before Boat B moved. Likewise, a boat that could have kept up the battle leaving the engagement area due to a rudder hit when it was near the board edge.

Overall, we're happy. Now if you'll excuse me, I've gotta chop off a destroyer model at the waterline.
   
Made in de
Poisonous Tomb Scorpion






 burad wrote:
We like them (the rules). Just remember, Vospers (and PT boats) and Fairmiles have wood hulls (they don't rust).....


They may not rust, but they'll sure stain.



I'll be honest, it's a good thing a friend got me into the game because Warlord's showcase models sure wouldn't have. The models themselves are nice enough for tabletop miniatures, but Warlord's paintjob is very plain and uninspiring. Which is especially something you'll notice with nations that don't have camo patterns to fall back on and are simply grey. It's quite dull and in my opinion you really need to do something about it.

It's one of my biggest issues with historical models. A lot of people unduly emphasize historical correctness without considering the scale they are working on, and it takes away from the visual experience in my opinion.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in us
Leutnant





Louisville, KY, USA

Cruel Seas at Heroes Comics in Louisville, KY today. 955 pts, Germans vs British, Torpedo Run scenario. British had 4 Vosper Type II (Mid) and 3 Vosper Type I (Mid). Germans were running an M-class Minsweeper, 2 Armoured S-38s, and 2 S-100 with quad 20mm swap out. All crews Regular.

Inability to train with live ammo showed for the British, as three of their Vosper IIs released their eels way too early, missing the Minesweeper by a wide margin. They quickly learned their lesson, and soon there were three full salvos of torpedoes streaking toward the German boat.

First pair hit. One detonated, the other proved a dud.

Second pair reaches the boat. One was too deep, the other a dud.

Third pair was sailing true, but the minesweeper increased speed at the last second, narrowly avoiding the eels.

One E-100 got a lucky hit on a Vosper, knocking its crew about such that they collided with the minesweeper... and bouncing back directly into the path of the big boat.

Though heavily damaged, and with its rudder locked, the minesweeper was able to take out a second Vosper just before being hit by a fifth torpedo... another dud! But, in focussing on desperate action against two Vospers, the minesweeper missed a third coming up from behind. A quick exchange of gun fire, and the valiant German crew went in the water within sight of their home coast.

End of Round 2.
Spoiler:


End of Round 3 - first eels in the water.
Spoiler:


End of Round 4 - total of nine eels making for the minesweeper.
Spoiler:


Round 5 - First pair of torpedoes reach the minesweeper. Second pair from the same boat should arrive next round...
Spoiler:


...while a pair from a companion boat also arrive.
Spoiler:


Round 7 - A Vosper sneaks in behind the minesweeper for the kill.
Spoiler:
   
 
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