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So we have had just about everyone have a different thought on how certain damage should be done......and that just seems wrong.

Let me set this up.

So if I have a unit of lets say 1 wound grot....and it gets hit by a lascannon. Hit, wound roll, save,then damage.....dead grot
So if I have the same unit but with some type of FNP rule....Hit, wound roll, save then damage then FNP. Probably one dead grot...I think that is right.

NOW

I have tyranid warriors or wraithguard.3 wounds each.

The marines shoot 2 damage plasma into them.

Lets say 3 hits, 3 wounds, 3 failed saves and then damage I think goes 4 on one and dead and 2 remaining on another model.

Lets say same thing but with a FNP type rule. I THOUGHT you would apply damage as above and then make your FNP rolls....which could mean both models survive with 1 or 2 wounds.

Some say you roll all the FNP wounds PRIOR to dealing damage...it that is the way then a Lascannon could kill up to 6 grots???

Some players were saying you group roll FNP roll out of the normal sequence. Others said wounds carry over. Others said that you CANNOT have more than 1 damaged model in a unit.

Wow....EVERYONE HAD A different way of doing it......That says something.

Help

Here's how it works:

You shoot Tyranid Warriors with Lascannons. Let's say, in the end, they fail 8 saves. (You have a lot of Lascannons.)

Roll the eight damage dice ONE AT A TIME. You CANNOT roll them together. Allocate damage as each die is rolled.

Let's say the dice come up 2, 4, 5, 3, 2, 1, 5, 6.

The first Warrior takes two points of damage, and lives.
He then takes four, and dies, BUT the overkill goes nowhere.
The next two sets of damage (5 and 3) each insta-kill a warrior.
Then, the 2 and 1 kill a fourth.
Lastly, the 5 and 6 kill another two.

If they have FNP, then roll damage for ONE unsaved wound, then roll FNP against it, then move on to the next wound.

Edit: In some situations, you can roll multiple dice at once.

If you're shooting at Plague Drones (four wounds) with a d3 damage weapon (say, a Battlecannon), then you can roll up to two dice at once IF none are wounded.

This is because a single d3 damage roll CANNOT kill a Plague Drone-you'd need a minimum of two.

But basically, you can only roll a number of dice that is the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM required to kill a model.

There are two answers, really.

The super-correct RAW way to do it would be to handle each and every attack separately, one after the other, and forgo "fast dice".

Example, 5 Dark Reapers shoot their Damage 2 Missiles (2 shots each, 2 damage each) at 10 Blood Angels Primaris with FNP and 2 wounds each.

1. Roll to hit for the first missile of the first Dark Reaper. Roll to wound. if wound-roll is successful, opponent picks one Primaris to allocate damage to. Roll save. Roll FNP. Did the Primaris lose two wounds after all this? Remove the model. If not, it stays.

2. Roll to hit for the second missile of the first Dark Reaper. Roll to wound. if wound-roll is successful, opponent picks one Primaris to allocate damage to (if there is a Primaris with 1 wound down already, it must be him). Roll save. Roll FNP. Did the Primaris lose either his final wound or two wounds after all this? Remove the model. "Excess damage" is discarded.

3. Roll to hit for the first missile of the second Dark Reaper. Roll to wound. if wound-roll is successful, opponent picks one Primaris to allocate damage to (if there is a Primaris with 1 wound down already, it must be him). Roll save. Roll FNP. Did the Primaris lose either his final wound or two wounds after all this? Remove the model. "Excess damage" is discarded.

4. ...

5. ....


Now, this is obviously very, very time consuming, so in virtually all cases I've ever seen, players will "fast dice" some of those rolls and not others, but when and where is usually dependent on your agreement with the opponent.

Example:

1. Eldar player rolls all the hits for all the Dark Reapers, followed by all the wound rolls. He informs the Blood Angels player that he has, say, 6 successful wounds of 2 damage each.

2. Blood Angels player rolls all the saves, failing let's say, 3 of them. He then rolls 2 dice for FNP 3 times in a row to see how many models are actually removed, mirroring as best as he can the result of the "correct" sequence.


Of course, other cases might make it necessary to "sequence" other dice rolls in the sequence as well, for example saves, if there is a unit of mixed saves (e.g. Thunderwolves with some Stormshields, but not on all of them, or something like that).

The aim would always be the mirror the "ideal" (but very long) sequence of individual resolutions of all attacks as closely as possible, but there are certainly situations where the outcome would't necessarily be perfectly identical.

cool.

If in fast rolling...is it acceptable that multiple models survive with a wound here or there?

Or is that a pure no no.

Because the correct way of sequencing it out could take a really long time. But at least we know.

AND in my 2 armies I will be running large blobs of WraithGuard or Tyranid Warriors...so this is something I will have to explain over and over.

 admironheart wrote:
cool.

If in fast rolling...is it acceptable that multiple models survive with a wound here or there?

Or is that a pure no no.

Because the correct way of sequencing it out could take a really long time. But at least we know.

AND in my 2 armies I will be running large blobs of WraithGuard or Tyranid Warriors...so this is something I will have to explain over and over.

Once a model has wounds allocated to it, you have to keep allocating wounds to them until they die.

And you cannot fast roll the damage. Let's say you do, and roll (on six Lascannons) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

If you roll in THAT order, five Warriors die.

If you fast roll, and then assign in any order, only four need die-assign it as 1-6, 2-5, and then 3 and 4.

Using your plasma example,

FNP cannot trigger until the save has been failed and the damage has been applied but the model has not yet been removed.

So...

2 warriors, 3 2dmg shots.

First warrior gets hit, fails save, fails 1 FNP (pass other). 2 wounds left but alive

Second shot hits, failed save, fails 1 FNP (pass other) 1 wound left.

Third shot hits, failed save, Fails 2 FNPs, 0 wounds left, no damage is carried over. you have 1 dead warrior and 1 full health warrior.


If you were to fast dice that it would look like this.

Roll 3 to hits. Hits. Roll 3 to wounds. Wounds. Allocate the first wound. Roll save. Roll FNPS. Allocate second wound. Roll Save. Roll FNPS. Allocate the third wound. Roll Save Roll FNPS.

Since all the warriors have the same save and same FNP (Presumably) YOU COULD fast dice it like this...

Roll 3 hits. Hits. ROll 3 wounds. wound. Roll Saves. Allocate wound. Roll 4 FNPs (because the first 2 wounds have to go to the same model to kill it anyway) Roll the last 2 FNPs.

Nobody at the table would reasonably argue against that. But by the same token it's not RAW and you don't actually have permission to fast dice saves or FNPs.

Like Lance said, you cannot fast roll saves or FNP effects, you must resolve them one at a time.