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Eldar (Aeldari) looking at the future and shaping it really reminds me of the Golden Path from Dune by Frank Herbert. The Golden Path just means threading the needle for the best possible future by way of perfect precognition. It is baisicly what some of the eldar seers try to do, although the eldar seers do not have perfect precognition.

The the TV show "Travelers" feature people sent back in time to change the future. As the future changes they get new problems to solve. Is this how eldars do it? In particular considering how the eldars do not manage to solve every problem because they fail some times.

 Niiai wrote:
Eldar (Aeldari) looking at the future and shaping it really reminds me of the Golden Path from Dune by Frank Herbert. The Golden Path just means threading the needle for the best possible future by way of perfect precognition. It is baisicly what some of the eldar seers try to do, although the eldar seers do not have perfect precognition.

The the TV show "Travelers" feature people sent back in time to change the future. As the future changes they get new problems to solve. Is this how eldars do it? In particular considering how the eldars do not manage to solve every problem because they fail some times.

Basic idea of Leto's outstanding precog was that Tyrant oversaw unnumerable possible futures with hivemind of his - and looked at patterns in tapestry. Eldar survey few or even one thread/branch at time - and through 'the dirty glasses' of highly personal perception, often missing nuances or entire branches (more like 'normal human' Muad'Dib - even sum total of eldar FarSeers are most probably less than number of Lito's subersonalities - and way less in sync). But everything that can happen is already present as thread of Skein - and the closer events are the more noticeable they are no matter of any factual data seers have (even if they fail to interpret visions properly).

"True timetravel' afterknowledge is entirely different as operatives act upon HARD if incomplete data for each problem. They know only of current problem and them - and Director - can only _plan_ past divergence point.

Golden Path is the actions you need to do to thread the needle of destiny with your perfect precon.

Eldars do not have perfect precon, although Eldrad has better precon then the rest of eldar seers.

The director in the traveler, does not have perfect information either, but he knows the reosults of future events. As the seasons go on other problems emerge as the old problems get solves. Would this be how the eldars try to 'thread the needle of desteny' as they work with the destiny paths they are currently on, from their perspective.

I mean, if you have perefect precognition and the possabilaty to act on them (like the golden path) then it would not matter where in the timeline you are as long as you are locked in.

The eldars and the director do not have acess to perfect information. One views from the future, one from the past, and with limited tools they try to change it. As one plan works of fail their update the possibol branches and try again.

Or am I missunderstanding something.

 Niiai wrote:
Golden Path is the actions you need to do to thread the needle of destiny with your perfect precon.

Eldars do not have perfect precon, although Eldrad has better precon then the rest of eldar seers.

The director in the traveler, does not have perfect information either, but he knows the reosults of future events. As the seasons go on other problems emerge as the old problems get solves. Would this be how the eldars try to 'thread the needle of desteny' as they work with the destiny paths they are currently on, from their perspective.

I mean, if you have perefect precognition and the possabilaty to act on them (like the golden path) then it would not matter where in the timeline you are as long as you are locked in.

The eldars and the director do not have acess to perfect information. One views from the future, one from the past, and with limited tools they try to change it. As one plan works of fail their update the possibol branches and try again.

Or am I missunderstanding something.

You are quite right, according to novels wich explore a bit more how the Seer predict the future all their actions take a toll and affect the future itself a Seer focusing too much in a fleeting posibility can make that posibility happen even if his original attempt was to avert it.

Yet Gav Thorpe has included a small version of the Golden Path for the Eldar and it's narrowed to the Phoenix Lords, they can check a kind of Oracle that points them wich way to follow (yet each one keep it secret for itself and never share it with the others) You can find a bit more about this in Asurmen and Jain Zar novels.

I tryed sole of the eldar novels and found them utter garbage. I do not want to revisit any of them.

Thanks though.

 Niiai wrote:

The eldars and the director do not have acess to perfect information. One views from the future, one from the past, and with limited tools they try to change it. As one plan works of fail their update the possibol branches and try again.

Not exactly - in Travellers case they're limited to knowledge of Director's timeframe and spatial area. Skein is ...infinite. And thus Skein potentially allows to find if your course of action and even goal are not what you _really_ need. Also Travelers were locked in single timeline for most of show and secondary timejump was 'deus ex machina' in season (series?) finale (maybe missed something - not my fav show and i mostly FFWDed it).

PS As for Golden Path - there's something that makes it way more than precog - it's not only way of Humanity's physical survival, it's way for humanity out of bein' locked in (self-created,warp-style) preordained fate (best WH40M analogy would be that Emperor's plan for Humanity to be shielded from Warp is bastardized comicsbook rendering of that). And thus Golden Path has FINITE - and pretty limited - timeframe as after reaching second goal there's no reliable prescience.

Leto seems to have had prefect precognition. Both Farseers and the Emperor have imperfect precognition. The Emperor explains this to Ra using the analogy of a ship at sea. The Emperor can see the route ahead but cannot see all the dangers that lurk beneath the surface like currents and rocks.

Also the actions of other precogs and Perpetuals can mess up precognition.

Yes. Later in the books leto make no ships and no genes does he not? To hide humanaty from precognition.

I also mean the emperor of Leto does this when they make his wife?

Yes, Leto's legacy was the ability to shield against precognition, both genetically and technologically. The Emperor in 40K has a similar goal to guide humanity to safety as a psychically mature species, immune to the predations of Chaos. So far it is not looking so promising.