Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Can a platoon commander take a unit of bullgryn with him with this relic ?

 kaiservonhugal wrote:
Can a platoon commander take a unit of bullgryn with him with this relic ?

The Relic very clearly explains what units may accompany the officer. The second (third if you count the errata) sentence will answer your question. Page 138 of Codex Astra Copywritum. Unless it's an Officer without a <REGIMENT> keyword (I cannot off the top of my head think of any), you cannot take Bullgryn since Bullgryn do not have a <REGIMENT> keyword.

Actually, Bullgryn have Militarium Auxilia regiment, so your Militarium Auxilia character can bring them along, if such a thing existed.

 alextroy wrote:
Actually, Bullgryn have Militarium Auxilia regiment, so your Militarium Auxilia character can bring them along, if such a thing existed.

Militarium Auxilia is not a regiment.

Designers Commentary wrote:Q: If I can choose a keyword for a unit, such as <Regiment> for Astra Militarum, could I choose that keyword to be, for example ‘Blood Angels’ or ‘Death Guard’?
A: No.
In the example above, ‘Blood Angels’ is a Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes and ‘Death Guard’ is a Legion of the Heretic Astartes – neither of which are Regiments of the Astra Militarum.

And if you choose to play as Index FAQ applying to the codex (they don't but some people do for some reason):

Index Imperium 2 FAQ wrote:Q: Are ‘Officio Prefectus’ and ‘Militarum Auxilla’ Regiments? I.e. could I choose for my Company Commander to replace his <Regiment> keyword with Militarum Auxilla?
A: No.

 alextroy wrote:
Actually, Bullgryn have Militarium Auxilia regiment, so your Militarium Auxilia character can bring them along, if such a thing existed.

From the Astra Militarum FAQ:

Page 138 – The Dagger of Tu’Sakh
Add the following sentence at the start of the rules text: ‘INFANTRY OFFICER model only.’

I didn't see any models with the MILITARUM AUXILLA, INFANTRY and OFFICER keywords as well as the aforementioned fact that MILITARUM AUXILLA is not a <REGIMENT>.

 Ghaz wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Actually, Bullgryn have Militarium Auxilia regiment, so your Militarium Auxilia character can bring them along, if such a thing existed.

From the Astra Militarum FAQ:

Page 138 – The Dagger of Tu’Sakh
Add the following sentence at the start of the rules text: ‘INFANTRY OFFICER model only.’

I didn't see any models with the MILITARUM AUXILLA, INFANTRY and OFFICER keywords as well as the aforementioned fact that MILITARUM AUXILLA is not a <REGIMENT>.

There is a bit of a "loophole" however. The rule says "The infantry unit must have the same <REGIMENT> keyword as the bearer if the bearer has one. If you somehow have an INFANTRY OFFICER without a <REGIMENT>, you could bring Bullgryns to accompany him or her.

The Officer of the Fleet has the officer keyword. Is Aeronautica Imperialis a regimental keyword?

 Trickstick wrote:
The Officer of the Fleet has the officer keyword. Is Aeronautica Imperialis a regimental keyword?

It is not. Good catch. I'm going to abuse utilise this intentionally written interaction in my next game.

I just realised it doesn't limit you to ASTRA COPYWRITUM units either, an Officer of the Fleet can outflank any INFANTRY unit, e.g. a unit of Custodes, if they want!

So, to sum it up: You can outflank some Bullgryns if you take an Officier of the Fleet, but a Platoon Commander cannot.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
The Officer of the Fleet has the officer keyword. Is Aeronautica Imperialis a regimental keyword?

It is not. Good catch. I'm going to abuse utilise this intentionally written interaction in my next game.

I just realised it doesn't limit you to ASTRA COPYWRITUM units either, an Officer of the Fleet can outflank any INFANTRY unit, e.g. a unit of Custodes, if they want!

Hmmm, I'm not too sure that it isn't a regiment. Mainly from:

If an ASTRA MILITARUM datasheet does not specify which regiment it is drawn from, it will have the <REGIMENT> keyword.

Codex pg 84.

So as the Officer of the Fleet does not have <regiment>, it must specify the regiment, with the only choice being Aeronautica Imperialis. The index FAQ is obsolete, and the designers' commentary is not really relevant. Is there another source that would address this?

 Trickstick wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
The Officer of the Fleet has the officer keyword. Is Aeronautica Imperialis a regimental keyword?

It is not. Good catch. I'm going to abuse utilise this intentionally written interaction in my next game.

I just realised it doesn't limit you to ASTRA COPYWRITUM units either, an Officer of the Fleet can outflank any INFANTRY unit, e.g. a unit of Custodes, if they want!

Hmmm, I'm not too sure that it isn't a regiment. Mainly from:

If an ASTRA MILITARUM datasheet does not specify which regiment it is drawn from, it will have the <REGIMENT> keyword.

Codex pg 84.

So as the Officer of the Fleet does not have <regiment>, it must specify the regiment, with the only choice being Aeronautica Imperialis. The index FAQ is obsolete, and the designers' commentary is not really relevant. Is there another source that would address this?

How do you know it's regiment isn't IMPERIUM? Show me the rule where it says Aeronautica Imperialis is equivalent to <REGIMENT>, the same way it does for MILITARUM TEMPESTUS on page 84. The fact that the rule exists for MILITARUM TEMPESTUS categorically proves that Aeronautica Imperialis cannot be a <REGIMENT>.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
How do you know it's regiment isn't IMPERIUM? Show me the rule where it says Aeronautica Imperialis is equivalent to <REGIMENT>, the same way it does for MILITARUM TEMPESTUS on page 84. The fact that the rule exists for MILITARUM TEMPESTUS categorically proves that Aeronautica Imperialis cannot be a <REGIMENT>.

Using the same quote I provided. "If an ASTRA MILITARUM datasheet does not specify which regiment it is drawn from, it will have the <REGIMENT> keyword". There are datasheets with Imperium, Astra Militarum and <regiment> on them. As they have the <regiment> keyword, the other words cannot be regimental keywords, due to the fact that you can only have <regiment> if you don't have a regimental keyword.

That isn't what the sentence is saying. And how do you know that IMPERIUM isn't a Regiment for that particular datasheet? You can't have it both ways. If you accept the Index FAQs as applying to the codex, there is your "intent" to go along with the written rules. "If an ASTRA MILITARUM datasheet does not specify which regiment it is drawn from, it will have the <REGIMENT> keyword". That means that anything that isn't drawn from a regiment won't have a Regiment keyword at all.

There is a reason why the Space Marines Units rule has to list out the individual chapter keywords, because they aren't equivalent to <CHAPTER>.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
That isn't what the sentence is saying. And how do you know that IMPERIUM isn't a Regiment for that particular datasheet? You can't have it both ways. If you accept the Index FAQs as applying to the codex, there is your "intent" to go along with the written rules.

There is a reason why the Space Marines Units rule has to list out the individual chapter keywords, because they aren't equivalent to <CHAPTER>.

The Imperium keyword can't have different meaning in different places. Keywords wouldn't function if that were the case. I know we are straying into silly RAW here, so I could turn it back on you. How do you know Aeronautica isn't a regiment? What even is a regimental keyword?

Eh, now that I look at it I think my argument has made Adeptus Ministorum, Cult Mechanicus, <forge world> and so on into regimental keywords. One of those 40k raw things that breaks a bit when you don't bend around it.

 Trickstick wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
That isn't what the sentence is saying. And how do you know that IMPERIUM isn't a Regiment for that particular datasheet? You can't have it both ways. If you accept the Index FAQs as applying to the codex, there is your "intent" to go along with the written rules.

There is a reason why the Space Marines Units rule has to list out the individual chapter keywords, because they aren't equivalent to <CHAPTER>.

The Imperium keyword can't have different meaning in different places. Keywords wouldn't function if that were the case. I know we are straying into silly RAW here, so I could turn it back on you. How do you know Aeronautica isn't a regiment? What even is a regimental keyword?

Eh, now that I look at it I think my argument has made Adeptus Ministorum, Cult Mechanicus, <forge world> and so on into regimental keywords. One of those 40k raw things that breaks a bit when you don't bend around it.

A regimental keyword is one you replace <REGIMENT> with. A model such as Harker with just the CATACHAN keyword technically doesn't have <REGIMENT>, the same way as Calgar doesn't have <CHAPTER>. Luckily, you can't give Relics to named characters, so it's a moot point (and MILITARUM TEMPESTUS has a special rule saying it is a <REGIMENT> ).

Hmm, the idea of outflanking any imperial infantry unit is interesting. Extremely non-rai, but could be fun to pull for a laugh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, my real life argument would be "Aeronautica Imperialis is in no way a regiment. It is a part of the Imperial Navy..." but that isn't exactly a rules argument.

The rules tell us that Aeronautica Imperialis is not a Regiment by virtue of being listed under the ‘Advisors and Auxilia’ section on page 132 of Codex Astra Militarum.

My favorite argument for Aeronautica Imperialis or whatever not being a regiment is saying "well, if that's a regiment with no specified doctrine, then I get to pick a doctrine for it, right?"

"Now all my flyers are Tallarn, have fun lads."