White Dwarf Release Rumours

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**Kdash**

So, I think it’s high time we had somewhere to start discussing all the White Dwarf beta rules releases and rumours, especially after the Crimson Fists release and the idea that we’ll be getting new rules every month.

Feb’s updates have been leaked over on the Competitive Reddit thread.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/21/21st-jan-introducing-better-beta-boltersgw-homepage-post-4/

This is going to make Intercessors and Deathwatch Bikers incredibly strong. Some Terminators might see a slight come back, but, they still have to survive for a 2nd shooting phase to take advantage of this.

I'm not going to lie, this could make Deathwatch even stronger whilst not doing a lot for everyone else. My personal highlight though is my 10 Vigilus Intercessors now have 40 shots at 30” range without moving…

Edit - Updated with WC article and better image.

**buddha**

Seems like a buff that affects terminators and bikers the most for those factions. I'm not seeing how this buffs line infantry (deathwatch aside).

edit: Realizing it also nerfs Death Guard a bit since it makes their faction trait redundant.

**Wayniac**

That seems interesting. I'm still not sure how I feel about what are thus far White Dwarf exclusive rules. It would be nice if those were on the community site, but maybe there will be a later book that compiles them, and something like this I'd bet would be in the 2019 Chapter Approved.

Actually, the wording of this rule makes it rather vague. Is it double rapid fire (e.g. Rapid Fire 1 becomes Rapid Fire 2) or is it just adding 2 additional conditions to the normal Rapid Fire rule?

**Kdash**

Personally, I don’t see this as impacting Terminators too much, outside of the ones put into DW squads. Generally Terminators will deep strike in, and already be in rapid fire range. After their shooting and charging they often die pretty quickly or will be dramatically reduced in squad size, limiting their impact afterwards. It’s a bonus, but, I don’t think it’ll be a bonus they get to use all that often.

Infantry wise, I’m mainly just looking at Vigilus Intercessors. Combined with the strat, and likely Raven Guard for the added -1 to hit, the damage 1 unit can put out at range is pretty exceptional. Even if it’s just 10 shots from 30” from a squad of 5, it’s going to do significant horde/screen clearing whilst being obsec.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wayniac wrote:
That seems interesting. I'm still not sure how I feel about what are thus far White Dwarf exclusive rules. It would be nice if those were on the community site, but maybe there will be a later book that compiles them, and something like this I'd bet would be in the 2019 Chapter Approved.

100% agree with your feelings on them just being in White Dwarf.

**Lord Kragan**

buddha wrote:
Seems like a buff that affects terminators and bikers the most for those factions. I'm not seeing how this buffs line infantry (deathwatch aside).

edit: Realizing it also nerfs Death Guard a bit since it makes their faction trait redundant.

Double number of shots within half range? A tactical marine makes 4 bolter shots if within 4 inches, sounds decentish.

**Kdash**

Lord Kragan wrote:
buddha wrote:
Seems like a buff that affects terminators and bikers the most for those factions. I'm not seeing how this buffs line infantry (deathwatch aside).

edit: Realizing it also nerfs Death Guard a bit since it makes their faction trait redundant.

Double number of shots within half range? A tactical marine makes 4 bolter shots if within 4 inches, sounds decentish.

The new beta rule replaces the current rapid fire rule, so a single Tactical Marine will only ever fire 2 shots max, regardless of range.

**Wayniac**

Lord Kragan wrote:
buddha wrote:
Seems like a buff that affects terminators and bikers the most for those factions. I'm not seeing how this buffs line infantry (deathwatch aside).

edit: Realizing it also nerfs Death Guard a bit since it makes their faction trait redundant.

Double number of shots within half range? A tactical marine makes 4 bolter shots if within 4 inches, sounds decentish.

I edited my own post to say this but are we sure that's what it means, and not just adding 2 extra conditions to the normal Rapid Fire rules for bolter weapons? Like, if you're within 12" with a bolter, do you make 4 shots? I've seen it interpreted as either that or it doesn't change the rule, just gives you extra ways to get rapid fire with bolters. That's how most people seem to be interpreting this. It's not double the rapid fire, it's just saying you can ALSO rapid fire with bolters if you were stationary or are a Terminator/Biker/Centurion/Vehicle

**casvalremdeikun**

Christ, that makes my Intercessors a bit more terrifying. And toss Bolter Drill into the mix, they will be shooting a ton of high accuracy bolt rifle shots at decent range. Devastator Centurions would have better range synergy too. Can't complain there.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Nope.

It's just expanding when you get double shots.

So those at half range are just standard Rapid Fire - 2 for most, 4 for Stormbolters and so on.

**the_scotsman**

Gotta say, other than the fact that it also buffs deathwatch, I'm not really getting the whole "oh this only buffs deathwatch and everyone else is screwed" vibe.

What does Deathwatch do? They equip storm bolters on their veterans, drop in and shoot.

How does that interact with the new rule, you ask? Well...it doesn't. Deep striking counts as moving, remember.

Deathwatch is the marine faction that gets those bikers who can equip storm bolters and put out 8 shots each at 24" range, right?

**casvalremdeikun**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope.

It's just expanding when you get double shots.

So those at half range are just standard Rapid Fire - 2 for most, 4 for Stormbolters and so on.

Sorry, I left out the part where it would be longer range. More incentive to park squads once they are where they need to be.

**WisdomLS**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope.

It's just expanding when you get double shots.

So those at half range are just standard Rapid Fire - 2 for most, 4 for Stormbolters and so on.

Sorry, I left out the part where it would be longer range. More incentive to park squads once they are where they need to be.

The reason people are saying this buffs Deathwatch the most is likely due to the fact they they have far superior boltguns to anyone else.

Personally I like it, makes marines a little better at shooting at range and is a pure buff to bikes and terminators, plus vehicles can all take bolters of some sort. Marines needed a little help verses hordes and this isn't massive but doubling the number of shots a few models would take is certainly useful.

**the_scotsman**

WisdomLS wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope.

It's just expanding when you get double shots.

So those at half range are just standard Rapid Fire - 2 for most, 4 for Stormbolters and so on.

Sorry, I left out the part where it would be longer range. More incentive to park squads once they are where they need to be.

The reason people are saying this buffs Deathwatch the most is likely due to the fact they they have far superior boltguns to anyone else.

Personally I like it, makes marines a little better at shooting at range and is a pure buff to bikes and terminators, plus vehicles can all take bolters of some sort. Marines needed a little help verses hordes and this isn't massive but doubling the number of shots a few models would take is certainly useful.

Right, but that's completely ignoring the primary way deathwatch operate: Deep striking directly into rapid fire range anyway. This gives a buff to deathwatch bikers and deathwatch primaris marines, but their meta unit of the veterans+terminators storm shield blob gains pretty much nothing from it.

I can see this being good on something like the Veteran+Hellblaster fortis team, but those still need to be operating in regular rapid fire range for the hellblasters to be making their money.

**bullyboy**

Kdash wrote:
Personally, I don’t see this as impacting Terminators too much, outside of the ones put into DW squads. Generally Terminators will deep strike in, and already be in rapid fire range. After their shooting and charging they often die pretty quickly or will be dramatically reduced in squad size, limiting their impact afterwards. It’s a bonus, but, I don’t think it’ll be a bonus they get to use all that often.

Well, it does give your terminators the choice to not drop in at 12" (but then you're paying all those points for powerfists for nothing). It also means that them being too slow is not a problem anymore since they can keep up the dakka with good range.

I think the rule helps bolters in that you can be on objectives and still put out decent firepower, pretty important with the new CA missions.

**Kdash**

All in all though, this does leave me pretty hopeful and interested in the future releases. They are attempting to fix specific things/fill very specific gaps. This certainly does open up a lot of possibilities… Just as long as they don’t fall into the codex creep trap.

**Reanimation_Protocol**

bullyboy wrote:
Kdash wrote:
Personally, I don’t see this as impacting Terminators too much, outside of the ones put into DW squads. Generally Terminators will deep strike in, and already be in rapid fire range. After their shooting and charging they often die pretty quickly or will be dramatically reduced in squad size, limiting their impact afterwards. It’s a bonus, but, I don’t think it’ll be a bonus they get to use all that often.

Well, it does give your terminators the choice to not drop in at 12" (but then you're paying all those points for powerfists for nothing). It also means that them being too slow is not a problem anymore since they can keep up the dakka with good range.

I think the rule helps bolters in that you can be on objectives and still put out decent firepower, pretty important with the new CA missions.

They also don't have to shoot at the unit they are charging (not saying this is a rule) just that usually it's the most optimal

they can now drop in, shoot at full range at rapid fire .. and still charge the unit they want to smash.. really opens up some options for target selection

**bullyboy**

Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
bullyboy wrote:
Kdash wrote:
Personally, I don’t see this as impacting Terminators too much, outside of the ones put into DW squads. Generally Terminators will deep strike in, and already be in rapid fire range. After their shooting and charging they often die pretty quickly or will be dramatically reduced in squad size, limiting their impact afterwards. It’s a bonus, but, I don’t think it’ll be a bonus they get to use all that often.

Well, it does give your terminators the choice to not drop in at 12" (but then you're paying all those points for powerfists for nothing). It also means that them being too slow is not a problem anymore since they can keep up the dakka with good range.

I think the rule helps bolters in that you can be on objectives and still put out decent firepower, pretty important with the new CA missions.

They also don't have to shoot at the unit they are charging (not saying this is a rule) just that usually it's the most optimal

they can now drop in, shoot at full range at rapid fire .. and still charge the unit they want to smash.. really opens up some options for target selection

and has made the 3 CP Deathwing strat a lot better

**Insane Ivan**

Confirmation that someone at Warhammer Community either checks Dakka or the Warhammer Reddit groups:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/21/21st-jan-introducing-better-beta-boltersgw-homepage-post-4/

Introducing: Better, Beta Bolters

Bolters! Aren’t they brilliant? Take a high-calibre assault rifle, replace the bullets with mass-reactive rockets the size of drinks cans, give them to your choice of power-armoured demigod, and boom! (literally) – you’ve got the 41st Millennium’s most iconic weapon.

In the hands of a normal warrior, a bolter is deadly, but in the hands of a Space Marine, they become a divine instrument of the Emperor’s* wrath.

We’ve been thinking a lot about bolt weapons recently, and we reckon, as the iconic weapon of humanity’s finest, Space Marine bolters could be better.

So, we’re testing out a change to bolters in Space Marine (and Chaos Space Marine) armies, with a new beta rule:

Ta-da!

Bolter Discipline changes up Rapid Fire bolt weapons to work a bit differently in the hands of the Adeptus Astartes and their Heretic brethren. Now, bolter-wielding Space Marines can kick out a ferocious storm of firepower, Intercessors can hose enemies down at range, and that’s before you consider the benefits to more exotic armaments like Inferno combi-bolters…

Veteran Warhammer 40,000 fans might be feeling a nostalgic twinge right now – and that’s because back in the distant past of 2nd Edition, the Rapid Fire rule was initially invented for Adeptus Astartes for just such a purpose – and now Space Marine and boltgun will be a combination to be reckoned with once more.

As a beta rule, we’d love you to try this in your games – just give your opponent a heads up first and check they’re okay with it. Once you’ve given it a go, if you’ve got thoughts, we’d love to hear what you think – email us at 40kFAQ@gwplc.com with the topic “Beta Bolter Discipline Feedback” and we’ll consider all your feedback in the final version of this rule!

If you’d like to read a more in-depth perspective on beta rules and the thinking behind this update, be sure to check out February’s White Dwarf, coming early next month. We’ll take a closer look at the issue this Friday.

*Or, the Dark Gods’ – take your pick.

**Rogerio134134**

I'm confused...so now if an intercessor with a bolt rifle is in rapid fire range he fires 4 shots? And terminators will always fire 8 shots with their storm bolters?

If so that's absolutely insane!

**Kanluwen**

Rogerio134134 wrote:
I'm confused...so now if an intercessor with a bolt rifle is in rapid fire range he fires 4 shots? And terminators will always fire 8 shots with their storm bolters?

If so that's absolutely insane!

No, you replace the standard Rapid Fire rules with these rules.

So if any of them apply...then it counts as being in Rapid Fire range.

**Redemption**

Rogerio134134 wrote:
I'm confused...so now if an intercessor with a bolt rifle is in rapid fire range he fires 4 shots? And terminators will always fire 8 shots with their storm bolters?

If so that's absolutely insane!

No, the change is that the intercessor fires 2 shots when not in half range if he's standing still, and the terminator always fire 4 shots with his stormbolter, regardless of range.

**Hulksmash**

Rogerio134134 wrote:
I'm confused...so now if an intercessor with a bolt rifle is in rapid fire range he fires 4 shots? And terminators will always fire 8 shots with their storm bolters?

If so that's absolutely insane!

No, it replaces rapid fire. Essentially it's a potential increase for the second range band (13"-24" on a bolter) where you then double the number of shots next to rapid fire. So Stormbolters on a bike would essentially always fire 4 shots. Same as a terminator. Or would fire 4 shots if a marine shot someone 18" away and had stood still in the movement phase.

**Rogerio134134**

Ah ok not quite as good as I thought then, was about to go and buy a million terminators.

**No wolves on Fenris**

So this would make Termie Calgar better in terms of shooting than PriMarneus? Does this make this version better overall or is an extra attack toughness and wound make up for it?

**Latro_**

nice buff for land raider crusaders!

also makes using sternguard interesting, can keep em back 30" now double tap and use the +1 to wound strat

**casvalremdeikun**

Latro_ wrote:
nice buff for land raider crusaders!

also makes using sternguard interesting, can keep em back 30" now double tap and use the +1 to wound strat

For sure. The LRC and Stormraven got a boost. Same with Centurions.

Sternguard might go back into my list because of this. Being able to take advantage of their full range is pretty awesome.

**Latro_**

not to mention they got a pts drop in CA - 10 of them is 160pts now...

sit back in cover maybe RG chapter tactic 30" away. 20 shots wounding most infantry on 3's most vehicles on 4's with a -2 to armour using the strat.

-1 to hit you getting shot back and +1 cover.

**Crimson_**

Dark Angels Dark Talon with two Hurricane Bolters 24 shots as well, always.

And don't forget Company Veterans on Bikes with Storm Bolters and Twin Linked Boltguns.

**JohnnyHell**

Now up on WHC so you don’t need to buy WD:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/21/21st-jan-introducing-better-beta-boltersgw-homepage-post-4/

**Asherian Command**

Crimson_ wrote:
Dark Angels Dark Talon with two Hurricane Bolters 24 shots as well, always.

And don't forget Company Veterans on Bikes with Storm Bolters and Twin Linked Boltguns.

And stormshields...