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So, I'm new to Warhammer 40k. By that, I mean that I got my first box set, the Dark Imperium for my birthday earlier this month. As I was pouring over my new prospective hobby and began clipping out my model pieces, I found myself becoming surprisingly enamored of the Death Guard's style (when not colored that ugly pale green). Deciding to see about putting some investment into this faction, I went onto Amazon with extra B-day money and pruchased the box set of Lord Felthius and the Tainted Cohort. Upon opening the box and reading their stats, however, I couldn't help but notice some oddities.

So, Felthius is clearly just a modified Lord of Contagion, such as came in the Dark Imperium set, but there is something off with his datasheet. Specifically, he has advantages a regular Lord doesn't have, such as the "Death to the False Emperor" ability and a manreaper that does 3 damage, rather than D3. These, naturally, make him significantly more powerful than the Lord that came in my box set. However, his power is listed as 7 - two below the newer Lord!

I'm assuming this is due to the more recent advent of WH40K 8th Edition and the balance/scaling changes that come with a new edition of any game. So, since I still want to use Felthius and his boys in my budding Nurgle army and since I can't find an answer to this via Google searching, I wanted to come here to get a consensus from the community: How do I adjust these older datasheets to use them in a modern game? Do I let Felthius and the Cohort keep their advantages and raise their assumed power level, or do I remove the advantages and just have Felthius be a normal Lord of Contagion? He seems special, so I'd prefer he have something special, but I'm willing to do what I must to use him in an acceptable game.

Whichever way I adjust things, what are Felthius and the Cohort unit's point totals for the purposes of building an army by points?

Sorry to be so long-winded on my first post, but I'm excited to work on getting into wargaming after years of not having the money to even think about it. Also, if this was posted in the wrong thread by mistake, I apologize and ask that it be moved to the appropriate place on the site~

Well, this is a bit complicated. Usually you use the most recent published rules, which is CA18. But neither lord felthius nor his cohort is in there. So its probably the death guard codex, which has points for the cohort, but not for lord felthius. So the most recent published rules for him are the ETB box, dark imperium box, or index. I dont know which of these is the latest release.

Felthius should in theory be identical to a Lord of contagion (albeit wrong base size ).
Regular lords do have Death to the False emperor.
Manreaper being 3 damage would be a mistake in the datasheet, as per the codex they do d3 damage (Are you sure it's not plaguereaper?)

Ultimately, meh, no real problem. Use what you have, but would recommend avoiding using obscure datasheets competitively.

If Felthius doesn't have points listed, then he can't be used in matched play. Just count him as a Lord of Contagion and be done with it.

Lord of Contagion with Manreaper and a unit of 3 Blightlord Terminators. Job done.

There must be different versions of the Felthius Datasheet, as I’m looking at one with D3 damage and PL7. Anyway, I’d avoid ‘get you by’ Datasheets outside of very friendly games. The Codex has valid ways to play these models so use the Codex rules and latest points (be they Codex or Chapter Approved) if using Matched Play.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Lord of Contagion with Manreaper and a unit of 3 Blightlord Terminators. Job done.

There must be different versions of the Felthius Datasheet, as I’m looking at one with D3 damage and PL7. Anyway, I’d avoid ‘get you by’ Datasheets outside of very friendly games. The Codex has valid ways to play these models so use the Codex rules and latest points (be they Codex or Chapter Approved) if using Matched Play.

This.

And stick him on a 50mm base- you're (minorly) losing out otherwise.

Thanks for all the answers, everyone! So, going over each of them...

1. The Lord of Contagion in the Dark Imperium box set doesn't have Death to the False Emperor (nor do any other DG units), while Felthius and the Cohort unit both do, so I assumed it was an older ability that was taken out of the Death Guard for 8th Edition.

2. I don't have the Death Guard Codex; is it downloadable somewhere?

3. His weapon is listed as a Manreaper, but appears to be identical to the new Lord's Plaguereaper, down to the Plague Weapon attribute. As for the different damage, I think I was just reading it all wrong. Felthius's weapon says it does "D3" damage, while the newer Lord's Plaguereaper does "3" damage under the "D" column, so it's probably the same thing, but formatted slightly differently. My mistake. >_>;

4. The EtB Felthius and Cohorts come with bases prepared with specific holes for the pegs on their feet, so putting him on an alternate base would require, first of all, acquiring said base, and second, cutting/filing off the large foot-peg meant to keep him in place. Unless "Da Rules" would not allow it, I'm probably gonna just stick him on his smaller base.

Anyway, I am hoping to just play friendly games for fun, not anything competitive. "Tournament" rules on games always kind of bug me, the way they say that this or that character/unit/item/card/etc. is banned or restricted.

1) DttFE is an abilty that is common (at the time of writing) to all flavours of Heretic Astartes, Death Guard codex included.

2) Yes, https://www.games-workshop.com/en-IE/Codex-Death-Guard-epub-2017

3) D3 damage and 3 Damage are not the same thing. If it has D3 in the column it does between 1 and 3 damage, if it has a flat 3 in the column it always does 3 damage.

4) The rules don't specify what base to put models on and common convention is that whatever base a model came with is legal regardless of what the "current" base size is.

Probably worth getting a Codex first off. Death To The False Emperor is an ability common to most Death Guard units. It’s listed in the Codex as a common ability before the Datasheets section, and referenced on them rather than written out in full each time. The same goes for Disgustingly Resilient.

It’s probably worth familiarising yourself with the Codex, Chapter Approved points changes and relevant FAQs before asking many YMDC questions, as a lot of stuff will be cleared up for you in the rules and FAQs themselves.

The datasheets for the box set's Death Guard units do all have Disgustingly Resilient, with a simple note to turn to the page with its full description, but DttFE isn't even in the book anywhere; none of the units I currently own outside of Felthius & Friends appear to have it, unless this Codex states that all Chaos-aligned forces are assumed to have it, which I would have no way of knowing on my own. :/

If what you say is true, BaconCatBug, then the newer Lord of Contagion, having Plaguereaper damage of a flat 3, does make him a bit more powerful than Felthius with his D3 roll, though not sure how that balances against Felthius's DttFE, which gives every attack he makes against any Imperium unit a 1/6 chance to get an extra attack. Also, I just noticed/re-realized that Felthy's Manreaper has Strength +3 as opposed to the regular Lord's +2 Plaguereaper, so he has that going for him as well.

Yes, that's the trade off (unless your name is Typhus). You get higher S with the Manreaper but more reliable damage with the Plaguereaper.

You REALLY need to pick up the DG codex. I wouldn't pay too much heed to the get you by datasheets. For example the Plague sprayer dude doesn't even have a ccw despite having to have one per the DG codex.

 Lord Nightforme wrote:
The datasheets for the box set's Death Guard units do all have Disgustingly Resilient, with a simple note to turn to the page with its full description, but DttFE isn't even in the book anywhere; none of the units I currently own outside of Felthius & Friends appear to have it, unless this Codex states that all Chaos-aligned forces are assumed to have it, which I would have no way of knowing on my own. :/

If what you say is true, BaconCatBug, then the newer Lord of Contagion, having Plaguereaper damage of a flat 3, does make him a bit more powerful than Felthius with his D3 roll, though not sure how that balances against Felthius's DttFE, which gives every attack he makes against any Imperium unit a 1/6 chance to get an extra attack. Also, I just noticed/re-realized that Felthy's Manreaper has Strength +3 as opposed to the regular Lord's +2 Plaguereaper, so he has that going for him as well.

The datasheets that come with Dark Imperium are simplified versions of those found in the main game, and don't include everything available to the army - including DttFE, a full range of wargear options, and a quite a few other things besides. The codex really is the top priority if you're looking to play more games, just to help you understand what's available and how it works.

For example, the current, Codex version of the Lord of Contagion has two wargear options - the Manreaper and the Plaguereaper. Both are valid options, with the Dark Imperium model having one option and Felthius having the other.

Also, FYI - Felthius came out after Dark Imperium. 8th edition was a total rules revamp, so if you see a datasheet that looks like the current ones, it's come out during 8th edition and (basically) supersedes earlier versions (I won't go into the Indexes right now, as that's just another layer of potential confusion)

 Lord Nightforme wrote:
The datasheets for the box set's Death Guard units do all have Disgustingly Resilient, with a simple note to turn to the page with its full description, but DttFE isn't even in the book anywhere; none of the units I currently own outside of Felthius & Friends appear to have it, unless this Codex states that all Chaos-aligned forces are assumed to have it, which I would have no way of knowing on my own. :/

If what you say is true, BaconCatBug, then the newer Lord of Contagion, having Plaguereaper damage of a flat 3, does make him a bit more powerful than Felthius with his D3 roll, though not sure how that balances against Felthius's DttFE, which gives every attack he makes against any Imperium unit a 1/6 chance to get an extra attack. Also, I just noticed/re-realized that Felthy's Manreaper has Strength +3 as opposed to the regular Lord's +2 Plaguereaper, so he has that going for him as well.

A Lord Of Contagion can have either weapon option. Everything Felthius has can be replicated with a Codex Lord Of Contagion. He’s just an alternate model with the other weapon option. Get yourself the Codex and you’ll see.

Got the Codex, and the Lord of Contagion is identical to the one in my book except that he does have DttFE and his power is 7 instead of 9. Also notice the Foetid Bloat-Drone is 2 Power less than the one in the book despite no changes at all to its stats or standard wargear. Man, I don't even know anymore... >_<

OKAY SO. To recap the answers I'm getting: I should abide by the unit stats in the Codex where it conflicts with the books I have and Lord Felthius is to be considered a reskinned Lord of Contagion with a Manreaper instead of a Plaguereaper?

Yes, use the codex. The box set rules are really only suitable when using the box set as is. You can theoretically mash the boxset rules into normal 40k but it's really not worth the hassle.

Thanks to everyone for the help! I think my questions have been answered satisfactorily; exalting everyone who helped me~! ^_^

Sorry to bump a thread, but I didn't think I should make an entirely new one just for this question:

The entry for Felthius's Cohort has the 3 Blightlord Terminators as a complete Elite unit, but the Death Guard Codex says a complete unit of Bightlord Terminators contains at least 4 Terminators and Blightlord Champion.

Would I be able to deploy just the three Terminators I have as a unit in matched play, or would I need to buy more to field a full unit?

In matched play you should use the most recent published rules, which is CA18.

 Lord Nightforme wrote:
Sorry to bump a thread, but I didn't think I should make an entirely new one just for this question:

The entry for Felthius's Cohort has the 3 Blightlord Terminators as a complete Elite unit, but the Death Guard Codex says a complete unit of Bightlord Terminators contains at least 4 Terminators and Blightlord Champion.

Would I be able to deploy just the three Terminators I have as a unit in matched play, or would I need to buy more to field a full unit?

Does the Felthius's Cohort have a points value? If so you should be able to use it in matched play but be prepared for people not being happy about it due to it being a "non-standard" rules source.

Not sure what part of the CA book answers my question... :/

I just want to know if my three Terminators can qualify as a complete Elite unit for the purposes of adding them to a "match legal" army detachment, or if I require a fourth Terminator and a Champion to use them in matched play.

 Lord Nightforme wrote:
Not sure what part of the CA book answers my question... :/

I just want to know if my three Terminators can qualify as a complete Elite unit for the purposes of adding them to a "match legal" army detachment, or if I require a fourth Terminator and a Champion to use them in matched play.

You need the extras if you use the codex datasheet. If you're using the Box Set datasheet it's fine.

My recommendation as always is to not use the Box Set sheets.

So you recommend I get more Terminators to "complete" my unit before trying to use them in matched play? Dang. Well, something to invest in, and making a larger squad of these guys can't hurt...

 Lord Nightforme wrote:
Not sure what part of the CA book answers my question... :/

The part where its point cost is updated, which is necessary for matched play. The codex has their rules, CA18 has their points. Isnt it great what GW is doing ?

 Lord Nightforme wrote:

I just want to know if my three Terminators can qualify as a complete Elite unit for the purposes of adding them to a "match legal" army detachment, or if I require a fourth Terminator and a Champion to use them in matched play.

There have been discussions if the datasheet that comes with those special units is the most recent published rules for them. Or if you need to use codex rules, GW isnt clear about what to do. What you can do, to make it a legal unit in matched play, is include them as an understrength unit, in an auxiliary support detachment, which is -1 CP. HIWPI, just use them as they are.

As P5freak said, there are three options:
- Use the datasheet from the box with updated point costs. Points can be found in CA2018 or the battlescribe software
- Use the blightlord termiantor datasheet in an auxiliary support detachment. You are allowed to bring one understrength unit per army.
- Ask your opponent whether it is ok to bring the blightlord datasheet with just three models. Since you are new to the game and probably not running any tournaments soon, people are unlikely to refuse.

In any case, you should put a box of blightlord terminators on your purchase list. They are one of the best units in our army, and only the big box has the almighty flail of corruption.

On the lord of contagion issue, to clarify:
- A lord of contagion is base strength 4
- It can either have a Manreaper (Scythe) for +3 Strength and d3 damage or a Plaguereaper (Axe) for +2 Strength and 3 damage.
- Lord Felthius is the official model for a Lord of Contagion with Manreaper, the Lord of Contagion from the starter sets (Dark Imperium, Know no Fear) is the official model of Lord of Contagion with Plaguereaper.

One thing I don't think has been fully is that 40k uses 2 different types of points values. There's Power Level, which is on the Datasheets themselves. Then there's points, which are available in the army's Codex and then updated in the latest Chapter Approved if required. Depending on where you play you may need to use one of those systems, or maybe both. Most gaming clubs and stores tend to use points but it's worth checking out the groups you're going to play with to see what they use. Of course, if you're just playing among friends you can decide on whichever you prefer.

On a related note, if anyone from GW were to stumble onto this thread I hope they'd be suitably horrified and embarrassed. By having a split system for army construction and no proper, centralised resource to keep things updated and current, GW have created an unwieldy, convoluted and confusing system to the point that an enthusiastic new player is utterly confused as to what they have to do just to build an army. OP, this is not your fault. It's purely GW's fault and if this thread is any indication it may well be costing them customers and money.