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Just a few questions regarding Deepstrike.

I‘m playing on a terrain heavy table with lots of multi level ruins. Forgeworld cityfight with new ruins kits. So 10 buildings 3 levels high. That is exactly 10“ high.

Deepstrike has to be done by placing the model more than 9“ away. So you can Deepstrike on the 2nd level of a ruin when the enemy is just on the ground floor. With the new Orks this brings some serious balancing issues:

1. Scout moves like sentinels or snipers / infiltrators cover no deepstriking deniing in the no mans land. If you move your units as a pre game move the other player can still Deepstrike on the 2nd floor. In case of snipers on the 2nd floor he can still ds on ground level.
2. deepstriking is possible directly in the deployment zone on the 2nd floor, when just ground floor is covered.

This could be a serious issue with the ork spell that can teleport a unit directly turn one on top in the middle of the deployment zone. Also the Deepstrike stratagems are quite strong with this. As you always have 3 to 4 ruins in your deployment zone there are nearly no options to field that many units to cover all floor levels.


What is your experience with this issue? Do you have the same balancing problems? Orks are way to strong on this ruins, as they are 10“ high.

Why is this a problem? Are you insinuating that somehow the Ork player is getting a charge off at less than 9" or is it their inbuilt ability to reroll the charge?

There is no issue here, the rules are clear.

Correct. The rules as I read them are clear.


I think that lots of ruins are shifting the meta pro deepstriking. Of course this is not only limited to Orks. This is of course for all deespstriking armies the same.

Consider deepstriking on normal terrain tables:
With clever positioning in your deployment zone you can deny ds. With scout moves or infiltrators you can push the ds line away from your deployment zone. So the other player has to move into your lines to get to the denial zones. This infiltrator and scout moves are a little like the stone papet scissors. The Deepstrike have to fight his way INTO your lines.

With the multi level ruins you can not deny. If the opponent ds there he is of course within charge distance like on every other table. But here he is in the middle of the deployment zone and is not fighting from some edge of the denied area.

So all I’m saying is that I think with the new terrain kits 10“ high the meta on a city fight board is extremely shifting pro Deepstrike.

So my question (beside if I missed some rules in this context) has been if you are have the same experience and if this is affect some balancing issues on this extreme tables.

 mokoshkana wrote:
Why is this a problem? Are you insinuating that somehow the Ork player is getting a charge off at less than 9" or is it their inbuilt ability to reroll the charge?

I too am confused. They are still at least 9 inches away from you, yes?

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:
Why is this a problem? Are you insinuating that somehow the Ork player is getting a charge off at less than 9" or is it their inbuilt ability to reroll the charge?

I too am confused. They are still at least 9 inches away from you, yes?

Correct. But on a normal table you have a 2D problem and after the 9 inch charge the enemy is crushing into your lines from the front,

With 10“ ruins this is a 3D problem with the enemy standing in the middle your army after the 9 inch charge.

And this i think is extremely shifting the meta. As I’ve said this is just orccuring on terrain heavy tables in combination with the new terrain kits.

If you're that worried about the ruin, can't you put something there to screen it?

9"+ between floors seems quite extreme too...

 Stux wrote:
If you're that worried about the ruin, can't you put something there to screen it?

9"+ between floors seems quite extreme too...

The new terrain kits are 5“ each level. So as described above on the city fight table I’m talking about you typically have 3 ruins minimum in your zone. With scout moves or infiltrators you have another 3 in the no mans land.
When you have basically to screen a 3D bubble that’s quite impossible and give Deepstrike an extreme advantage.

Thoni wrote:

 Stux wrote:
If you're that worried about the ruin, can't you put something there to screen it?

9"+ between floors seems quite extreme too...

The new terrain kits are 5“ each level. So as described above on the city fight table I’m talking about you typically have 3 ruins minimum in your zone. With scout moves or infiltrators you have another 3 in the no mans land.
When you have basically to screen a 3D bubble that’s quite impossible and give Deepstrike an extreme advantage.

Put something on the middle floor..?

Honestly, I don't see any extreme advatange here. Have you had this issue in real games at all?

And those orks are big units so unless the top floor is big will strugle to fit all 30 inside

And one unsupported unit in your army does tend to die pretty fast...

As this isn't a rules question per se I am moving it to tactics.

 ingtaer wrote:
As this isn't a rules question per se I am moving it to tactics.

Thank. Can you move this or do I have to do something?

According to the answers there is no rule I’m missing, so yes now it’s a tactic question.

Sure, sceening a 3D bubble is harder than a 2D one, but city fights have always encourages a more close and personal playstyle. You shouldn't try to screen and gun, you should focus on close range weapons and assaults. If you try to keep your distances in a city figh, you will be at a disadvantage sure, and not only for the deepstrikers.

Thoni wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
As this isn't a rules question per se I am moving it to tactics.

Thank. Can you move this or do I have to do something?

According to the answers there is no rule I’m missing, so yes now it’s a tactic question.

Already done.

Ruins are actually more of a problem for mellee armies. You often can do absolutely nothing vs a unit occupying a floor of a ruin. And even if you get there, you become stuck as vertical coherention doesn't work for mellee

 koooaei wrote:
Ruins are actually more of a problem for mellee armies. You often can do absolutely nothing vs a unit occupying a floor of a ruin. And even if you get there, you become stuck as vertical coherention doesn't work for mellee

Please explain how vertical coherency does not work for melee.

 mokoshkana wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Ruins are actually more of a problem for mellee armies. You often can do absolutely nothing vs a unit occupying a floor of a ruin. And even if you get there, you become stuck as vertical coherention doesn't work for mellee

Please explain how vertical coherency does not work for melee.

Unit Coherency allows for 6" between models vertically. The Fight Phase has no such allowance, it's 1" or within 1" of a friendly model within 1", period. Vertically as well. Since all measurements are made base to base, it's impossible to be within 1" of a friendly model who is on the ruin level above you.

It's the same reason why Wave Serpents can never be charged by something with a base.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Ruins are actually more of a problem for mellee armies. You often can do absolutely nothing vs a unit occupying a floor of a ruin. And even if you get there, you become stuck as vertical coherention doesn't work for mellee

Please explain how vertical coherency does not work for melee.

Unit Coherency allows for 6" between models vertically. The Fight Phase has no such allowance, it's 1" or within 1" of a friendly model within 1", period. Vertically as well. Since all measurements are made base to base, it's impossible to be within 1" of a friendly model who is on the ruin level above you.

It's the same reason why Wave Serpents can never be charged by something with a base.

The models may not get to attack up or down levels, but they are certainly still in coherency. The battle primer says nothing about coherency in the fight phase. So unless there is an FAQ, my original statement still warrants an explanation.