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Have been out of the hobby pretty much since 8th dropped.

I've heard good things and that the game is a lot more balanced thab 7th.

Is a tier list still relevant? Are certain armies still well above others or is everything that's had a standalone coded somewhat close.

Any armies excel at certain missions or rule sets while falling flat in others?

For the most part, as mono-factions, most armies are pretty close. The exception is really Grey Knights, which was kind of weak to begin with and has recieved the short end of a stick as collateral from multiple repeated nerfs.

That said, "soup" armies, which contain up to three aligned factions, are generally considerably better than mono-faction armies [for obvious reasons].

which meta? Points or PL?

S Tier - Soups of various flavors, usually including a knight castellan or blood angels smash captains.
A Tier - Eldar, DE, Imperial Guard.
B Tier - Tau, Tyranids, Death Guard.
C Tier - Orks, Daemons, Mechanicus, Thousand Sons.
D Tier - Space Marines, Necrons.
F Tier - Grey Knights.

https://www.40kstats.com/

You can see win rates in tournaments of various races. Various flavors of Eldar are best, Imperial Guard are second best.

Yeah, at this point the biggest balance problems in the game are caused by combos of out-of-codex units.

As an example, one single imperial Knight can have a very powerful limit-1 relic and a very powerful warlord trait, giving it huge damage and durability. then, you combine with an infantry heavy guard army to give it tons of command points (something an all-superheavy Knight army would not have in nearly the same quantities) and have it use a huge number of powerful Knights stratagems to put out crazy firepower while also being nigh on impossible to remove.

Also, you have Haywire weapons out of the Harlequin codex, which are low-strength weapons but if they roll high to wound they cause a single unsaveable wound on a vehicle (even if they'd be wounding it only on a 5 or a 6). however, combine with the "Doom" psychic power from the Craftworlds codex, which debuffs a unit to make everyone in your army reroll wounds against it, and those Haywire weapons suddenly cause almost double the damage, blowing away vehicles.

The ally system is causing pretty much all the imbalance in the game at present, and armies without allies struggle to keep up. Others like the aforementioned Grey Knights and vanilla marines struggle to compete against factions that are almost exactly the same, but do the job better, as has pretty much always been the case (there's usually been one "best marine in show" in every 40k meta I've ever seen.)

w1zard wrote:
S Tier - Soups of various flavors, usually including a knight castellan or blood angels smash captains.
A Tier - Eldar, DE, Imperial Guard.
B Tier - Tau, Tyranids, Death Guard.
C Tier - Orks, Daemons, Mechanicus, Thousand Sons.
D Tier - Space Marines, Necrons.
F Tier - Grey Knights.

Maybe add Imperial Knight and Harlequin to A Tier, Deathwatch maybe at B Tier, Blood Angel, Dark Angel to C Tier. Space Wolves to D Tier.

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, at this point the biggest balance problems in the game are caused by combos of out-of-codex units.

As an example, one single imperial Knight can have a very powerful limit-1 relic and a very powerful warlord trait, giving it huge damage and durability. then, you combine with an infantry heavy guard army to give it tons of command points (something an all-superheavy Knight army would not have in nearly the same quantities) and have it use a huge number of powerful Knights stratagems to put out crazy firepower while also being nigh on impossible to remove.

Also, you have Haywire weapons out of the Harlequin codex, which are low-strength weapons but if they roll high to wound they cause a single unsaveable wound on a vehicle (even if they'd be wounding it only on a 5 or a 6). however, combine with the "Doom" psychic power from the Craftworlds codex, which debuffs a unit to make everyone in your army reroll wounds against it, and those Haywire weapons suddenly cause almost double the damage, blowing away vehicles.

The ally system is causing pretty much all the imbalance in the game at present, and armies without allies struggle to keep up. Others like the aforementioned Grey Knights and vanilla marines struggle to compete against factions that are almost exactly the same, but do the job better, as has pretty much always been the case (there's usually been one "best marine in show" in every 40k meta I've ever seen.)

The faction system boosts the power of already powerful armies, but it isn't the cause of all the imbalance. Grey Knights will always lose to Mono-Codex Eldar (Dark Eldar, Craftworlds, and Harlequins). They will always lose to Mono-Codex Guard. They will always lose to Thousand Sons. They're just bad. Same with Necrons and Space Wolves. The game has imbalance issues that are deeper than simply allies. That said, there are a LOT of viable armies that can hold their own, I guess its' fortunate only 3-4 of them are pure bottom tier.

To the OP;

There's definitely some "haves" and "have nots". Generally speaking, the following codexes are great for playing as a solo force with anything you own, and still feeling really in control of a fun game.

(no particular order)
- Craftworld Eldar
- Dark Eldar
- Imperial Guard
- Imperial Knights

The following factions are okay if you play them by themselves. They do have some top-tier units or lists, but generally those are very specific builds. These forces play best by bringing in allies. They generally they have a lot of lackluster units that you might take for fun and then feel really sad with how poorly they perform:

- Space Marines of all kinds
- Chaos Space Marines of all kinds
- Chaos Daemons
- Harlequins
- T'au
- Necrons
- Tyranids
- Orks

Lastly, there are some factions that are almost all around garbage. They have some units that are good that make their way into soup builds for tournament play, but just can't seem to work on their own.

- Adeptus Mechanicus
- Genestealer Cult
- Grey Knights
- Adeptus Custodes


What's awesome though is just how few there are in that bottom list, and how many there are in the higher lists. Also, with the way things are, you really do see almost all of the "worst" factions still make their way to the tabletop because they do have units that break the mold enough to see competitive play! Genestealer Cults have (for now) Genestealers and Primus', Adeptus Mechanicus has Robots, Adeptus Custodes have Dawneagle Jetbikes, and Grey Knights have Nemesis Dreadknights. These are all totally great units!

As such, while this above list might draw you to the armies that can have something good out of using anything, there really has never been a better time that I can remember when the armies were so generally well balanced between each other!

I would echo previous comments and say that for the most part, mono-codex vs. mono-codex tends to be an enjoyable or at least workable experience, even for a Necron player like myself.
Individual model issues aside, the only codex armies I think need an overall nerf in power are IG, D-Eldar, Ynnari and IK, and the only army I would outright warn a newbie off from playing are GKs.
Considering the variety available, that's not terrible (nor is it an excuse not to do better).

There are still tiers between codici, and soups tend to be better than mono codex, but things in general are much closer than other editions.

For example, even while necrons are considered to be a D tier codex, you still see them taking top places here and there, even after the nerf to theyr cheese vault.

Custodes below Marines? I find Custodes do decently as a mono army to be honest. Probably below Nids and Orks, but I'd say they belong in that mid tier with what else you've put there.

Well, the top mono builds are certainly CW, Drukhari and AM, while IK mono builds are a bit questionable as they are too light on models.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the top mono builds are certainly CW, Drukhari and AM, while IK mono builds are a bit questionable as they are too light on models.

Yeah, if this is a mono tier list I'm not convinced IK are top tier either. Depends on the mission, but a lot of armies should be able to run rings around them on objectives.

No troops.
No fly.
Invul based.
No protectable characters.

I count at list 4 missions where pure IK struggle.

 Stux wrote:
Custodes below Marines? I find Custodes do decently as a mono army to be honest. Probably below Nids and Orks, but I'd say they belong in that mid tier with what else you've put there.

Yeah, you've got mono-custodes making appearances at tournaments fairly frequently compared to other factions.

At the end of the search, you should look at the statistics, TiWP or Tournaments in Winning Position. Lists with at least 4 wins.

Here you can find the following factions

1) Astra Militarum
2) Drukhari
3) Ynnari
4) Imperial Knights
5)T'au Empire
6) Chaos Daemons
7) Thousand Sons

Given that we've just had some major changes in CA, it's hard to say.

For example, most people are ranking Necrons as ass tier, but we haven't seen what they can do with the recent points drops. I think they're back up in the mix with the other good mono-faction codexes.

Soup will always be at the top of the rankings though, the only thing that changes is which flavour of soup.

But yeah, this is the rankings:

1. Soup
2. Most mono-factions
3. Weaker sub-codexes like Space Wolves.
4. a herd of piglets
5. Grey Knights

 Zande4 wrote:
Any armies excel at certain missions or rule sets while falling flat in others?

Many sub-factions (inquisition, sisters of silence, legion of the damned, starstriders, etc) don't work as stand-alone armies. Some don't particularly work as allies either...

A few factions (such as beta sisters) have a glass ceiling in competitive play where no amount of preparation will make much difference to unfavourable match-ups, while others (such as Imperial Knights) have quite a drastic leap in power with a few allies providing screening/cps or other buffs.

ids and Tau would place far better if not for soups. Guard, Eldar, and Chaos have had a fairly long run of strong showings. People are still getting the hang of the new orks, chapter approved costs, and marine buff.

Guard are so far and above everything else just because of the loyal 32, they slot into every imperial list and make it better, the 5 CP is what your after and the cheap screens are just icing on the cake.

If you are going mono Eldar are pretty much top tier, dark eldar and guard are up there too, all marine flavours suffer from being too many points and having no efficient way of dealing with the cheap troops or speed of the top factions, although Deathwatch with the new change are likely to become part of the top tier meta.

I'd second Yarium's list, with the exception that I'd put Custodes as mid-tier. Primarily because Dawneagle Jetbike beatsticks, although those are mostly outdone by BA SmashCaptains.

On a pure mono playground, Marines go from lower-midtier to upper-midtier.

Surprised so few are mentioning knights in tier 1 because they certainly are.

I think most see Knight-backed Soup as easily Tier 1, but pure IK lists as middle/low tier.

Many of those who haven't listed Knights as top tier have specified they were ranking non-Soup Knights or had other caveats.

 buddha wrote:
Surprised so few are mentioning knights in tier 1 because they certainly are.

Knights tumble a bit when they don't have allies to feed them CP and take objectives. Pure knights actually have a decent amount of weaknesses.

 buddha wrote:
Surprised so few are mentioning knights in tier 1 because they certainly are.

Imperium soup, which includes Knights, is certainly top tier.

Mono Knights is mid at best.

Yeah. "Knight" is top tier. "knights" is mid-tier at best.

If you go by ITC, it really looks like this:

Not listing Sisters and GSC because people are waiting for codexes at this point. Also trying to focus on actual lists rather than factions, because that's how it actually works.

Tier 1 - Top Tier
#1. Imperial Guard + One Castellan. This is the top list in the game right now and has no natural counters. Imperial Guard without a castellan is also still in Tier 1, but there's no point listing it because there is no reason not to bring a castellan. You can staple it on, it may as well be a part of codex AM. This list could also easily have a BA smash captain.

#2. Ynnari + CWE. Ynnari have been performing incredibly well since the start of 8th edition really. Being able to get extra shooting phases in a game where you should have max of 6 is bonkers. Also Hemlocks. CWE is very strong in the first place. When you add in the ability to act a few times, goodness. CWE can stand on their own as well, but why, and if you are, just drop down to tier 2 below Orks with DE, since most CWE players would add DE if they aren't adding Ynnari.

Tier 2 - Very Strong Tier

#3. Orks. Orks are incredibly strong and a meta breaker in a lot of ways. Very few lists can reliably deal with these guys, and some recognizable pro-names are taking them to LVO. Boyz + dakka + characters. It's no mystery how they will beat you.

#4. Dark Eldar + CWE. Dark Eldar are very strong but have shifted down as they don't have a great answer for lists 1, 2, and 3. Poison spam, blaster spam, grotesques, etc. It's well known how this army functions at this point.

#5. Tau. Tau have always been strong, and continuously show well in major events. They are kept down by Castellans and knights. Riptides and drones though will always be good. A good Tau player who understands how to use his drones will ruin your day.

Tier 3 - Opportunistic Middle Tier

#6. Tyranids - Tyranids are a strong overall army, and received some nice points adjustments. They can't deal with knights so that puts them down. Kraken genestealers are still the best option.

#7. Thousand Sons/ TS+SuperFriends / Death Guard. Morty Mag bomb is still good, but the nerf to the DMC makes this list a lot less flexible. As a result Morty has been phased out a bit. I put all of these armies together because there is just a lot of overlap, although there really doesn't have to be. DG + Renegate Knights is also viable. There are so many ways to soup the fancy CSM that it's just really hard to spell them all out. Short answer: They're good.

#8. Deathwatch. Poisoned 2+ ammo and spammable storm bolters / intercessors, will be made much better if the new bolter rules become a reality. The only thing keeping DW down is the fact that they can't deal with vehicles, and they still operate on the same core marine statline. Their offense power is more overall efficient than Bobby G if you're using the right stuff. You can also soup in a castellan and guard, because, why not.

Tier 4 - Not Great, but can win inconsistently

#9. Necrons. Received some price cuts and weren't very good prior, but can do a little bit of damage. They have volume dakka, which can never really be counted out.

#10. Ultramarines. If you build a BobbyG gunline and go first on a table with no terrain, you'll probably win. Since that happens about half the time, expecting a 500 winrate is not entirely unreasonable. Could also have BA.

Tier 5 - Complete Awful Tier

#11. AdMech. One gimmick, not great at it.

#doesn't matter. Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Codex Marines. These guys have no presence in a soup list, because when you're adding to your imperial guard, deathwatch are the best play. And, since they don't benefit from bobby G's rerolls, they have no place in a UM list. A supreme command with a rune priest, dark angels librarian, and another librarian is still a thing, but that doesn't really count as running these armies. that's the actual definition of soup, which people conflate with allies all the time on here.

I am surprised to see Admech listed so low in all these tier lists. They just got a huge point cut, and are one of the better imperium factions at dealing with mass infantry and minus to hit.

 Valentine009 wrote:
I am surprised to see Admech listed so low in all these tier lists. They just got a huge point cut, and are one of the better imperium factions at dealing with mass infantry and minus to hit.

Most armies got pretty big point cuts tbf.

I'd say Admech is in a way better position than space marines now that they got sweeping point changes in CA18