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Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Let's just pretend grot shields don't exist?

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in ca
Wicked Wych With a Whip




 rollawaythestone wrote:
I posted earlier in the Tournament Discussion and also on Reddit about some statistical analyses I did of the 2018 win rate data posted on 40kstats.com. Some of you might find that discussion relevant to the current discussion.

You can see the rest of the analyses in those threads, but from my quick first pass (using a k-means clustering of mean win rankings), it seems like army rankings can be boiled down into 3 "tiers" of armies (see the figures in the Spoiler). Bad, Average, and Good. Adding additional "tiers" didn't explain a whole lot more variance in these data over lower cluster solutions. The 4 "tier" solution, for instance, just explains a little more variance than the 3 cluster solution, and splits Drukhari and Ynnari into their own top-tier ranking. Obviously, we can nit-pick individual armies and make more fine-grained rankings, but ranking armies in 3 tiers does a pretty good job and explained the preponderance of variance in the data.

Figures are in the spoiler:
Spoiler:




This is of course, limited in many ways, but is an interesting first pass at a data-driven way to organize the faction rankings from an evidence based perspective.



How are the armies classified? With your data can you tell the difference between single codex Dark elves (in spaaaace) and dark elfs with some kind of psycher support?

Its cool that you have that data but its of limited uses until we can tell the difference between solo lists and allied forces.
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





South Florida

Headlss wrote:
 rollawaythestone wrote:
I posted earlier in the Tournament Discussion and also on Reddit about some statistical analyses I did of the 2018 win rate data posted on 40kstats.com. Some of you might find that discussion relevant to the current discussion.

You can see the rest of the analyses in those threads, but from my quick first pass (using a k-means clustering of mean win rankings), it seems like army rankings can be boiled down into 3 "tiers" of armies (see the figures in the Spoiler). Bad, Average, and Good. Adding additional "tiers" didn't explain a whole lot more variance in these data over lower cluster solutions. The 4 "tier" solution, for instance, just explains a little more variance than the 3 cluster solution, and splits Drukhari and Ynnari into their own top-tier ranking. Obviously, we can nit-pick individual armies and make more fine-grained rankings, but ranking armies in 3 tiers does a pretty good job and explained the preponderance of variance in the data.

Figures are in the spoiler:
Spoiler:




This is of course, limited in many ways, but is an interesting first pass at a data-driven way to organize the faction rankings from an evidence based perspective.



How are the armies classified? With your data can you tell the difference between single codex Dark elves (in spaaaace) and dark elfs with some kind of psycher support?

Its cool that you have that data but its of limited uses until we can tell the difference between solo lists and allied forces.


The armies are classifed according to a players primary faction as input on BCP or as collated by 40kstats.com (see the other threads for more details).

Yes, this is absolutely limited without more detailed information. Unfortunately, there is less data to address questions about specific faction combinations (which could still be done nevertheless). Also, BCP and 40kstats.com have only begun to collate the unit selections from individual player's lists. They have tallied up the LVO data, for instance, which required fully submitted lists for the event. Unfortunately, not all events require that information or make it available. Addressing those questions is definitely a future directions thing.Nevertheless, I think this is a good way to conceptualize the standing of factions generally over the past 2018 tournament season.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/01 01:18:34


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




SemperMortis wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Is it time to compare the humble grot to an Infantryman again? Shall we see what 1pt buys us?


1pt gets you +1 toughness, +1 strength +1 armor +12 weapon range, +1 weapon skill and a bunch of other fun things But i mean...orkz are the absolute best codex in the game right?


GW in an attempt to encourage larger armies has made things to cheap that a lot of granularity has been lost. The floor is so low now that things can't be priced properly and you get huge swings in power that is highlighted with the above jump of one point gets you an insane amount of additional utility.
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

SemperMortis wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
No. Gretchen give incredibly cheap cp. Youd want them with or without 25 lootaz.


Except all they are good for is cheap CP where as a guardsmen which is 1pt more can actually be an effective unit and was heavily utilized by recent winners of LVO.

Grotz suck except for CP and I would rather have boyz, I still take 30 grotz for CP to fill out battalions but that is it.


It costs 90 points to get 5CP. You'd have already taken the characters anyways o its basically 90 points and 30 bodies gets you 5 cp. I'm sorry but Orks drink CP's like OJ on a hot day in Florida. Also last time i checked, IG werent in ork armies. So comparison there is sort of irrelevant. If you the ork player want 5 CP's, you the ork play have to dish out 90 points. Big whoop. You WILL get that bag in spades as production goes.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in ru
Fresh-Faced New User




How GSC feel in terms of competitive play?
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

simakover wrote:
How GSC feel in terms of competitive play?


Very good thus far. Buggest "fun" list ive seen is the triple Vulture spam w Swarmlord, genestealers and abberants leading the parade, and mandatory sniper and such.

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





 Jancoran wrote:
simakover wrote:
How GSC feel in terms of competitive play?


Very good thus far. Buggest "fun" list ive seen is the triple Vulture spam w Swarmlord, genestealers and abberants leading the parade, and mandatory sniper and such.

That sounds interesting! Please share!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
simakover wrote:
How GSC feel in terms of competitive play?


Not OP but able to at least play vs anyone, imo, and also very thematic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/12 08:47:57


P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
 
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