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2019/03/01 00:15:47
Subject: Tier List?
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Clousseau
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Let's just pretend grot shields don't exist?
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Galas wrote:I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote:He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic. |
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2019/03/01 01:08:49
Subject: Re:Tier List?
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Wicked Wych With a Whip
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rollawaythestone wrote:I posted earlier in the Tournament Discussion and also on Reddit about some statistical analyses I did of the 2018 win rate data posted on 40kstats.com. Some of you might find that discussion relevant to the current discussion.
You can see the rest of the analyses in those threads, but from my quick first pass (using a k-means clustering of mean win rankings), it seems like army rankings can be boiled down into 3 "tiers" of armies (see the figures in the Spoiler). Bad, Average, and Good. Adding additional "tiers" didn't explain a whole lot more variance in these data over lower cluster solutions. The 4 "tier" solution, for instance, just explains a little more variance than the 3 cluster solution, and splits Drukhari and Ynnari into their own top-tier ranking. Obviously, we can nit-pick individual armies and make more fine-grained rankings, but ranking armies in 3 tiers does a pretty good job and explained the preponderance of variance in the data.
Figures are in the spoiler:
This is of course, limited in many ways, but is an interesting first pass at a data-driven way to organize the faction rankings from an evidence based perspective.
How are the armies classified? With your data can you tell the difference between single codex Dark elves (in spaaaace) and dark elfs with some kind of psycher support?
Its cool that you have that data but its of limited uses until we can tell the difference between solo lists and allied forces.
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2019/03/01 01:17:36
Subject: Re:Tier List?
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Rampaging Carnifex
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Headlss wrote: rollawaythestone wrote:I posted earlier in the Tournament Discussion and also on Reddit about some statistical analyses I did of the 2018 win rate data posted on 40kstats.com. Some of you might find that discussion relevant to the current discussion.
You can see the rest of the analyses in those threads, but from my quick first pass (using a k-means clustering of mean win rankings), it seems like army rankings can be boiled down into 3 "tiers" of armies (see the figures in the Spoiler). Bad, Average, and Good. Adding additional "tiers" didn't explain a whole lot more variance in these data over lower cluster solutions. The 4 "tier" solution, for instance, just explains a little more variance than the 3 cluster solution, and splits Drukhari and Ynnari into their own top-tier ranking. Obviously, we can nit-pick individual armies and make more fine-grained rankings, but ranking armies in 3 tiers does a pretty good job and explained the preponderance of variance in the data.
Figures are in the spoiler:
This is of course, limited in many ways, but is an interesting first pass at a data-driven way to organize the faction rankings from an evidence based perspective.
How are the armies classified? With your data can you tell the difference between single codex Dark elves (in spaaaace) and dark elfs with some kind of psycher support?
Its cool that you have that data but its of limited uses until we can tell the difference between solo lists and allied forces.
The armies are classifed according to a players primary faction as input on BCP or as collated by 40kstats.com (see the other threads for more details).
Yes, this is absolutely limited without more detailed information. Unfortunately, there is less data to address questions about specific faction combinations (which could still be done nevertheless). Also, BCP and 40kstats.com have only begun to collate the unit selections from individual player's lists. They have tallied up the LVO data, for instance, which required fully submitted lists for the event. Unfortunately, not all events require that information or make it available. Addressing those questions is definitely a future directions thing.Nevertheless, I think this is a good way to conceptualize the standing of factions generally over the past 2018 tournament season.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/01 01:18:34
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2019/03/01 01:18:44
Subject: Tier List?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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SemperMortis wrote:
1pt gets you +1 toughness, +1 strength +1 armor +12 weapon range, +1 weapon skill and a bunch of other fun things But i mean...orkz are the absolute best codex in the game right?
GW in an attempt to encourage larger armies has made things to cheap that a lot of granularity has been lost. The floor is so low now that things can't be priced properly and you get huge swings in power that is highlighted with the above jump of one point gets you an insane amount of additional utility.
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2019/03/01 19:54:05
Subject: Tier List?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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SemperMortis wrote: Jancoran wrote:No. Gretchen give incredibly cheap cp. Youd want them with or without 25 lootaz.
Except all they are good for is cheap CP where as a guardsmen which is 1pt more can actually be an effective unit and was heavily utilized by recent winners of LVO.
Grotz suck except for CP and I would rather have boyz, I still take 30 grotz for CP to fill out battalions but that is it.
It costs 90 points to get 5CP. You'd have already taken the characters anyways o its basically 90 points and 30 bodies gets you 5 cp. I'm sorry but Orks drink CP's like OJ on a hot day in Florida. Also last time i checked, IG werent in ork armies. So comparison there is sort of irrelevant. If you the ork player want 5 CP's, you the ork play have to dish out 90 points. Big whoop. You WILL get that bag in spades as production goes.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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2019/04/12 06:24:18
Subject: Tier List?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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How GSC feel in terms of competitive play?
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2019/04/12 07:43:12
Subject: Tier List?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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Very good thus far. Buggest "fun" list ive seen is the triple Vulture spam w Swarmlord, genestealers and abberants leading the parade, and mandatory sniper and such.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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2019/04/12 08:43:26
Subject: Tier List?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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Jancoran wrote:
Very good thus far. Buggest "fun" list ive seen is the triple Vulture spam w Swarmlord, genestealers and abberants leading the parade, and mandatory sniper and such.
That sounds interesting! Please share! Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not OP but able to at least play vs anyone, imo, and also very thematic.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/12 08:47:57
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. |
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