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CSM Black Legion /World Eaters list with Khârn and Abbadon. 2000pts  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam

Hello everybody,

After a three year break from 40k I decided to return to the hobby. Now iám trying to come up with a good armylist mainly focused on black legion and world eaters. I did some research and found out that close combat is not really the way to go in 8th edition but I like to give it a try anyway. I like to build a list with Abaddon and Khârn because they were soem of the first models I owned (about 15 years ago :X) But I never fielded them. So please help me finalize this list with these two characters at the centre. I got a lot of useful tips from kind people on this forum and reddit and changed my list several times. (added Landraiders, Defilers, Hellbrutes and now removed them again) Ended up with this list. Let me know what you think and how I can make it better. Also want to ask what you guys would suggest for the use of chaos marks especially on rhinos, brutes, defilers, cultists, oblits?

Battle strategy:

The three rhinos with the berzerkers Khârn/ Exalted champion will move towards the enemy ASAP. Abbadon will go with the cultists and move with the oblits providing anti tank fire power. Daemon Prince will follow the Berzerkers where needed.
Any tips or critisism is more then welcome I need all the tips i can get. If you have any tips or advice on tactics pelase let me know.



++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [59 PL, 2CP, 1103pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Black Legion

+ HQ +

Abaddon the Despoiler [12 PL, 2CP, 240pts]: Warlord

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 180pts]: Intoxicating Elixir, Malefic talon
. Slaanesh: Delightful Agonies

Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: Bolt pistol, Delightful Agonies, Force stave, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 95pts]: 18x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [52 PL, 895pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: World Eaters

+ HQ +

Exalted Champion [5 PL, 74pts]: Bolt pistol, Mark of Khorne, Power sword

Kharn the Betrayer [8 PL, 120pts]

+ Troops +

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 171pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Chainsword, Power fist
. 8x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 8x Chainaxe

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 154pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Chainsword, Power fist
. 7x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 7x Chainaxe

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 154pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Chainsword, Power fist
. 7x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 7x Chainaxe

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

++ Total: [111 PL, 2CP, 1998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

This message was edited 13 times. Last update was at 2019/03/06 22:03:13


Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

: 6000
: 2000  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I think you are wasting points with the assortment of special characters. Run a barebone chaos sorcerer instead of ahriman. What is your reasoning behind Abaddon? It is also hard to critique a list when you only give a list and not your game plan. Your list also suffer greatly against vehicles and gunlines. Aside from your obliterators you have nothing to do real damage at range. Once your obliterators get destroyed that's game. What is your local meta as well?
   
Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam

@LordOfCows You are totally right I made a game plan so please let me know what you think. Would also like to hear your thougts on making cuts to reach 2000 points.

I like Abbadon because I owned him for about 15 years now and never fielded him.(same goes for Khârn) I dont mind cutting them if it means ihave a far better list. I haven't played a game in about 4 yers so I dont know any local meta atm.

I also EDITED the list and followed your tips on dropping the Ahriman and ended up dropping the whole outrider detachment. (Tryed fitting in a sorcerer on bike with some spawn but already far over my limit)

All help is welcome

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/07 21:18:09


Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

: 6000
: 2000  
   
Made in gb
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch






The list looks ok but i would make a couple of changes. You don't need the dark apostle and khan. They both do the same job and if you're not buffing multiple units with your characters you're not getting any value out of them.

Also a little psychic in the list would help. Warptime and diabolic strength are powerful as is deathhex. I would change the daemon prince for a slanesh one for the intoxicating elixir or just a plain old sorcerer.

With the extra points either buy more bezerkers and put a powerfist on the champions. Or make one of those cultists squads as big as possible. Abandons aura plus the tide of traitors stratergem is super powerful.

I would move the helbrutes to the black legion detachment for abandons rerolls.

Finally if you can find 6 points add a second combi bolter to the rhinos. They're now rapidfiring at 24" so 8 shots a piece at 24 isn't bad for 4 points.
   
Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam

@small_gods I see your points and changed the list around and got a lot closer to 2000 points but still to many points.

Iám not sure what way I should change it. Thinking of dropping the landraider for some Hellbrutes and let Abbadon go on foot with cultists defiler hellbrutes and oblits. Could also remove landraider and stick some CC termies with abbadon. At this point I just dont know.

Gave the Berzerker champions fists and ended up removing Khârn for a Dark Apostle to lessen the points and I got kinda scared of Khârn killing my berzerkers or himself.

Again all help is more then needed. Also wonder if this list is even valid atm(beside not exceding 2000 points)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/10 07:54:27


Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

: 6000
: 2000  
   
Made in gb
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch






The list is legal and is an improvement on the original I feel.

That's the only problem with abandon, his aura us great, he's tough and great in close combat. He's just super slow. If you drop the landraider for two helbrutes that would start a decent deathball with the defiler and the oblits.

If it were up to me I would drop one of the bezerker parry party buses and replace with 10 cultists and use those points to max out a squad of 40 with abandon. That way you can get the most out of his fearless aura as well as his rerolls. Also tide of traitors is really good value with a big blob of 40 and you can screen your deathball really well.

It's a tough call with khan as bad rolls will kill off bezerkers. If you're careful you can play around it. Choose bezerkers to fight first. Get rerolls from khan then use pile in move to get more than an inch away so he can't kill them when he is selected.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/10 14:31:49


 
   
Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam

@small_gods

Thanks for the feeback really appreciated. I have been playing around a bit with changes and came up with this list


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [52 PL, 2CP, 928pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Black Legion

+ HQ +

Abaddon the Despoiler [12 PL, 2CP, 240pts]: Warlord

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 180pts]: Hellforged sword, Intoxicating Elixir, Slaanesh

Sorcerer [6 PL, 103pts]: Death Hex, Eye of Tzeentch, Force stave, Mark of Tzeentch, Plasma pistol, Prescience

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, No Chaos Mark
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, No Chaos Mark
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [9 PL, 110pts]: 21x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, No Chaos Mark
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [64 PL, 1059pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: World Eaters

+ HQ +

Dark Apostle [5 PL, 76pts]: Bolt pistol, No Chaos Mark, Power maul

Exalted Champion [5 PL, 71pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe, Chainsword, Mark of Khorne

+ Troops +

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 155pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe, Chainsword, Power fist
. 7x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 7x Chainaxe

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 155pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe, Chainsword, Power fist
. 7x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 7x Chainaxe

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 155pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe, Chainsword, Power fist
. 7x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 7x Chainaxe

+ Heavy Support +

Chaos Land Raider [19 PL, 299pts]: Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne, Twin heavy bolter, 2x Twin lascannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

++ Total: [116 PL, 2CP, 1987pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


I Kharn removed but sorcerer added also landraider replaces a rhino to put 8 zerkers with the world eater HQs in.
Removed Defiler and made the cultist blob bigger 22x and two squads of 10 (only own 42 cultists) list is 1987 points so finally legal.

I have some questions though what mark would you give Rhinos/Landraider, what mark would you give cultists and what mark would you give Obliterators.

I still worry about anti tank power but I do like the look of this list (fun wise) not sure if it will work


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I could also change the sorcerer for Mutilators to go with Abbadon or maybe drop the landraider and go for some Hellbrutes... tough call

Also if Khârn can't hit his own men doesnt he hurt himself on a to hit roll of 1?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/10 15:02:17


Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

: 6000
: 2000  
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block




The Betrayer : You cannot re-roll or modify hit rolls of 1 made for Kharn the Betrayer in the Fight phase. Instead, those attacks automatically hit a friendly unit within 1". Randomly determine which unit is hit if there is more than one. If there are no friendly units within 1" of Kharn, the hits are discarded.


I think this is pretty clear.

If you are not bound to a specific god by your legion, it only depends of the stratagems or icones you want to use.

Khorne for melee units : Icon of Wrath (reroll charge) and Fury of Khorne [3CP] (unit can fight once more).
i.e. Khorne Melee Terminators.

Slaaneesh for ranged units : Endless Cacophony [2CP] (unit can shoot once more) and Icon of Excess (5+ death to the false emperor).
i.e. Slaanesh Obliterators.

Nurgle for survivability or Morale Penality : Icon of Despair (-1cd) and Grandfather's Blessing [2CP] (heal 1d3 wounds or add a slain model with 1w).
i.e. Night Lord Nurgle Raptors for heavy cd penality.

Tzeentch for psychic : Icone of Flame (extra mortal wound to ennemy nearby on a 6) and Grand Sorcerer [1CP] (cast an additional spell).
i.e. How to cast Death Hex after your ennemy wasted all his Deny the Witch ?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/02/10 16:22:56




 
   
Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam

@Blasphem you are right the rule reads very clear I gues I got misinformed somehow Thank yo ufor clearing it up.

So you would go for Slaanesh for the Oblits and cultists.

maybe khorne for the rhinos? so they can benefit from the auras aswel?

Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

: 6000
: 2000  
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block




You are welcome.

Indeed, best mark for Obliterators is Slaanesh (Nurgle in second position to revive one dead model).

For the Cultists it depends on you gear them, melee weapons = khorne, ranged weapons = slaanesh, but since you don't play big mobs of 40 cultists it doesnt realy matter. I would not waste any CP for stratagems nor points for icon on a unit of 10.
But if you want to try a horde of 40 cultists, Slaanesh is realy potent with autoguns, the combo is kinda expensive (3~5CP) but using wave of traitors to deepstrike full size unit and mass shooting key target down with VotLW. (80 BS4+ shoots wich hits T4~5 on 4+, stats it deals 20 wounds for 3CP. Twice for 5CP with Endless Cacophony).
Khorne may do the same trick in melee but it's by far worst and dangerous for your cultists.

Since your rhinos are World Eaters, the need to have Mark of Khorne (but anyway it will not change anything).



 
   
Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam

thanks again you have helped me so much. It's crazy how much has changed from 7th edition to 8th.

Used to play Nurgle Marines but my old list is a total waste now. Typhus with 42 zombies, spawn sorcerer on bike. (https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/668120.page)

That's why i decided to start fresh and turn to World Eaters and Black Legion the reason I picked Chaos in the first place (about 17 years ago ) Fall i nlove with Khârn and Abbadon.

Thinking of getting more cultists to make the 1st troop 40 cultists to benefit the most from the stratagem and Abba aura. I could drop the sorcerer to achief that comes down to 100ish points to up the cultists to 40. Although most of my army is close combat focused I think i go with the autocannons on the cultists.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/11 07:12:13


Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

: 6000
: 2000  
   
Made in gb
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch






Yeah i think that blob of 40 cultists would make the list run well. Having a lot of bodies seems to help a lot in this edition. If you can keep one alive then tide of traitors is really powerful with abandon as you don't have to spend CP to stop them running away!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah i think that blob of 40 cultists would make the list run well. Having a lot of bodies seems to help a lot in this edition. If you can keep one alive then tide of traitors is really powerful with abandon as you don't have to spend CP to stop them running away!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/11 14:18:41


 
   
Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam

Not sure if I should cut the sorcerer for that.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [62 PL, 2CP, 1120pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Black Legion

[b]+ HQ +


Abaddon the Despoiler [12 PL, 2CP, 240pts]: Warlord

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 180pts]: Hellforged sword, Intoxicating Elixir, Slaanesh

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 50pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 60pts]: 11x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [12 PL, 200pts]: 39x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [52 PL, 878pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: World Eaters[/b]

+ HQ +

Exalted Champion [5 PL, 71pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe, Chainsword, Mark of Khorne

[b]Kharn the Betrayer [8 PL, 120pts]

+ Troops +

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 155pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe, Chainsword, Power fist
. 7x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 7x Chainaxe

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 155pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe, Chainsword, Power fist
. 7x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 7x Chainaxe

Khorne Berzerkers [9 PL, 155pts]: Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe, Chainsword, Power fist
. 7x Chainsword and Chainaxe: 7x Chainaxe

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

++ Total: [114 PL, 2CP, 1998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/11 21:31:40


Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

: 6000
: 2000  
   
Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam

working hard to paint it all

Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

: 6000
: 2000  
   
Made in gb
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch






I feel your pain, I'm currently finishing painting 30 plaguebearers, 10 bloodletters and a 3rd t'son daemon prince to update my tourney list.
   
Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam

Ah nice!

Working on 3 rhinos and about 24 berzerkers and exalted champion and Khârn. Also thinking of redoing 60 cultits :O

Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

: 6000
: 2000  
   
Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam





This message was edited 12 times. Last update was at 2019/02/14 18:12:34


Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

: 6000
: 2000  
   
Made in be
Been Around the Block




Good ol' models here. Specialy love the old sorcerer, i had the same when i was kid, remember me my youth.
I know it may be long, I am painting 20 plague marines and 40 poxwalkers right now, but it worth the work !



 
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





List looks very solid.
I wouldn't worry too much about exactly what's in the army based on what people here say is good: that's up to you. Taking advice is very useful, but if you're looking for just casual games maybe that's a liiiitle much... Too good

Your models look very nice, classics you have yourself there. maybe think about a dry brush and wash on the red armour and same for gun? Altough if you're a veteran I assume you don't need to be told these things right?

Have fun with 8th, it is a lot of it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/15 00:11:54


3500
2000
3000
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Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam

Thank you, yeah you are right. I will stick the sorcerer in just for fun factor..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/06 22:02:12


Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

: 6000
: 2000  
   
Made in nl
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





Amsterdam

changed

Chaos was the law of nature; Order was the dream of man.

: 6000
: 2000  
   
 
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