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So.....
Ive recently just returned to the void-cold embrace of 40k as a game. I've been playing since 1990 (Rogue Trader), but took a small 7 year break until recently.
Ive sort of kept up with the lore, however, through the Black Library, and a couple of years ago I read 'Vulkan Lives'.
Kind of blew my mind.
Not the writing: Nick Kyme is solid but not mind-blowing. Nor was it the fighting, though I must say there may or may not have been a man-tear during Istvaan V.
No, It was Vulkan himself. Kyme depicted him as a truly GOOD GUY. I mean, there was the whole killing-the-elf-child thing, but he actually felt REMORSE.
I like his inherent goodness. I like the fact that he, almost alone among the primarchs (With the possible exceptions of Guilliman and Magnus), was set up to fit in to
a peacetime Imperium. I liked the fact that he seemed to be a builder/craftsman first, and a warrior/general second.

But then, well y'know...

And ing FIRE!!!!

To get to the point, I am trying to mathhammer together a viable 40k version of Vulkan. I would like to post my work here, but I wanted to ask first if anyone else had done it, and if
it was any good. I found one thread from back in 2017 that looked like a slightly modified Guilliman. I saw where he was going with it, but it didn't really seem to fit quite right.

Here are the conditions under which I am working.
1. The only loyalist primarch that currently exists in both 30k and 40k is Guilliman.
2. Vulkan exists in 30k.
3. Guilliman costs 400 points in both versions. (At least as far as the C:SM that I have says. Please let me know if I'm out of date. I hear GW is actually trying to BALANCE stuff now. By like, LISTENING to the PLAYERS or some silliness).
4.Vulkan costs 425 points in 30k.
5. The dynamic of the game has changed greatly. Specifically, when I read the old and new statlines of a thing, I'm not sure I can mentally math out the conversion. Looking at Bob G., It seems like they traded his WS7 (old) for a WS 2+ and more attacks, as an example.
6. I see it as essentially an arcane algebra problem. We do have a couple of known constants. If Guilliman is 400points in both editions, it would be reasonable to assume that Vulkan could be equivalent , as well. The variables are within the questions like:
What does 400 points mean in both rulesets?
How do things like Vulkan's 30k Earthshatter rule translate into a blast-free format?

And on and on.

To summarize, I want to create a ruleset for Vulkan that is thematic, characteristic of the Salamander's ethos, FUN to play with, and that would be easy for a casual opponent to accept as reasonably balanced.

Is there anything out there that people like using? I have something like 5 to 6 pages of notes and charts as I attempt to make this conversion. I'll check in later to see what everyone's thoughts are before I dive into the granular stuff I've figured out/discovered.
Thanks in advance!

I think look at the FW Index entry for Bray'arth Ashmantle. He's a dread but has a lot of the same abilities and resilience that Vulkan shows. He's also 400pts but doesn't buff surrounding troops like a Primarch would.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think look at the FW Index entry for Bray'arth Ashmantle. He's a dread but has a lot of the same abilities and resilience that Vulkan shows. He's also 400pts but doesn't buff surrounding troops like a Primarch would.

Tip: Jump up to the proposed rules subforum. Those lads love this sort of stuff.

What are your thoughts on getting a Vulkan model. Making a Salamander army and just using the Ultramarines and Guilliman rules for everything.

Nothing in rules prevents ultramarines from being painted green.

The only WYSIWYG problem would be the Vulkan model. But 9/10 players would be fine with that.

Large blasts convert to heavy d6 and small blasts heavy d3. There is also heavy 3d3, 2d6, etc.

Good thoughts!
I didn't even notice there's a proposed rules sub forum. I'll check it out!
As far as the WYSIWYG situation... I'm on sort of a slow-grow track, right now. I'm not really a math person, but I do pretty good with patterns and such, and I've sort of assigned myself this project as 'homework'. Its always been frustrating to me how some of my favorite models in 40k are exclusively FW, and there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO GET RECASTS OF ANYTHING EVER AT ALL...ahem...
Simply put, I've got a Mercedes appetite on a Toyota budget. I was lucky enough to be able to procure his Drakeness, but I simply won't ever be able to justify investing in a whole 30k army.
But I want it to feel right. I want him to be fun to use as himself. I'm in no hurry to put the model on the table just to see it there. I'll wait until I start churning through my first few busted versions of the rules for that.

And... ing FIRE!!!

And yes... Ashmantle. That is one PRETTY mofo! He's a beast, too! I have to admit, I was a bit astounded by the 400pt price tag for him, though. He is tough, but his HQ status is only as a last resort type of thing, and I dont think he's 400 points worth of tough.

My break from the hobby was a little longer than yours but I am happy to be back with my Salamanders.


The Iron Dragon is a badass, just not necessarily 400pts, an HQ & has to be warlord.

I too wish for the Lord of Drakes to take the field during these cataclysmic times.

He should probably have a pretty high toughness & strength or a sort of FNP. I'm really interested in what you come up with.

One of the things about the 30k primarchs is that they have the 'It will not die' rule, which is essentially a Wolverine-esque healing factor sort of thing. I'm wondering how that would translate to 40k.

 CATACLYSMUS wrote:
One of the things about the 30k primarchs is that they have the 'It will not die' rule, which is essentially a Wolverine-esque healing factor sort of thing. I'm wondering how that would translate to 40k.

Once again, I shall point you toward the little, boxy bundle of pyromania that is Ashmantle. 2+ save, 4+ invulnerable, 4+ Feel no Pain. He also is a character with less than 10 wounds so can't be targeted. The guy's almost impossible to take out.

I haven't seen the FNP in action in 8th. I've really only played one small game so far, so I dont have a log of personal 8th ed. Experience. Is it as annoying as it was in the old rule set?

Just did a little more looking.... Hooooly crap! Since he has the 'Wrought by Vulkan' rule, I should give V a repair ability a la tech marine. Put the two on the table with nothing else and watch the enemy experience Apocalyptic butthurt as they calmly have brunch while ignoring 3d100 melts shots per turn...

I think that the 40k version of vulkan should embody all the things salamanders are, he should have sort of a dragon theme, maybe a cloak, he should have some sort of buff to the signature weaponry of the salamanders, and definitely an immunity to fire/melta type weapons!

He should probably do something like what the existing 40k character we already had for the salamanders does, except that he would give primarch soap opera fanbois a boner.

Then, five years later when the primarchs aren't cool and awesome and over the top enough for the fanbois, he should be replaced by a PRIMARISMARK, the ORIGINAL set of primarchs that were too awesome that the emperor made the regular primarchs to cover them up, and then we should have an interminable, fanservice filled book series about them, create a new game in direct competition with 40k, have the fanbase foam at the mouth for them to be included in 40k, and then get models for all of them.

I'm thinking we should have primarismarks at 800-900 point range at least, about the size of an imperial knight, and the standard aura they should all have is a reroll to advance, charge, psychic tests, deny the witch, hit, wound, damage, number of shots, and morale.

Deleted...

 CATACLYSMUS wrote:
One of the things about the 30k primarchs is that they have the 'It will not die' rule, which is essentially a Wolverine-esque healing factor sort of thing. I'm wondering how that would translate to 40k.

CA2018 has the answer

"This model regains 1 lost wound at the start of your turn."

However i just made my build of him anyway without this.

I did
S/T = 7
W =9

2+/3++/4+++

He is actually S = 8 because he must have the Salamanders Warlord trait, if warlord. You get the 3 command points if he is Warlord in a Battle-Forged army.
He is in combat S16 due to the fact his wep is x2.
I changed the master of battle from Robo G Man. To Master of Forge and have it re-roll wound and Damage rolls of 1 for imperium units.
I didn't give him Robo G Man's get up rule cause I deisgned him around not going down in the first place.
His Special weps are an
18" 2D6 S6 Heavy flamer
His named Thunder Hammer does D6 mortal wounds to one unit within 1" during the fight phase in addition to it's normal damage. (Hammer Time/Make Slam BA dude jealous)
If you have him in army all Chapter tactics Salamander: chapter tactic gain 1 LD Characteristic. He also has an auto pass moral 12" (abbaddon style) for imperium units.

I would expect Vulkan to be unstable, so would like to see that reflected in his rules. Kurz broke his brain! Maybe he can go into a frenzy, something based around a leadership roll?

To reflect his nature as a perpetual further (in addition to regaining wounds every turn) he could have a rule that the opponent cannot earn victory points as a result of slaying him. He's gonna stand back up eventually whatever!

those stats make sense, I'm not sure about the range on the flamer but it should work since he is huge and able to wield a weapon capable of it.

I would say instead of adding to the ld, just using the 12" ignore morale but giving it a little more range since his presence on the battlefield would be massively inspiring to all Sons of Nocturne. 18" maybe? he should have a teleport homer tho, for you know, fluff reasons.

I'm very close to picking the Lord of Drakes up next time i do a FW order.

Racerguy180 wrote:
those stats make sense, I'm not sure about the range on the flamer but it should work since he is huge and able to wield a weapon capable of it.

I would say instead of adding to the ld, just using the 12" ignore morale but giving it a little more range since his presence on the battlefield would be massively inspiring to all Sons of Nocturne. 18" maybe? he should have a teleport homer tho, for you know, fluff reasons.

I'm very close to picking the Lord of Drakes up next time i do a FW order.

I just used he profile listed in the HH Book 2 and converted it to 8th Ed 40k on that flamer.

The Ld bonus refers to how he is lore wise a cool dude that people respect so he inspires people. He auto pass Moral to Imperium units so not just Salamanders (this is different to Robo G Man who has re-roll Moral Tests), it's the same range as Abaddon.
a 12" bubble on a unit basis basically is your whole army if you want it to be.

Another thing is his armour is
The Draken Scale: Vulkan has a 3+ Invulnerable Save. In addition, attacks made by weapons with the following in it's name (Flamer, Fusion, Volkite, Melta or Plasma) have it's Strength Characteristic halved (round down) that target this model.
Also mandatory
XVIII Primarch: You can re-roll any failed Hit and Wound rolls for friendly Salamanders units within 6" of Vulkan.