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Can you use a grenade after you advance?

Looking at the rules at first it is definitely no, but then I reread grenades again and I saw this:

Core rules "Grenade"
Each time a unit shoots, a single model in the unit that is equipped with Grenades may throw one instead of firing any other weapon.

This indicates "IF" a model can shoot it can decide not to shoot and in exchange use a grenade.

Does this mean a model with an assault weapon can throw a grenade? It has a weapon capable of shooting which seems to be the prerequisite to use a grenade.

This all comes down to the point If my 5 Atalan Jackals all have shotguns and demo charges (Which are grenade weapons) can they all advance, pop the extra explosives strat to be able to toss up to 5 demo charges and use them?

No. This discussion was had minutes after 8th dropped, and the rules don’t say what you posit. You can’t throw a grenade after advancing without a bespoke special rule saying you can.

Ok, but can you point out where it says this?

I pointed out that the rule from the book says insted of shooting you can throw a grenade, if a model has an assault weapon it can shoot and therefore should be eligible to throw a grenade after it advances.

The problem is that a grenade is not an assault weapon.

You can also only throw a grenade if you're in range for the grenade.

There are clearly other conditions beyond the model being able shoot with something it's holding.

I understand it is not an assault weapon but in the rules for grenades it says "Each time a unit shoots, a single model in the unit that is equipped with Grenades may throw one instead of firing any other weapon." After you advance you normally cannot shoot therefore you cannot use a grenade but if you have an assault weapon you can shoot and therefore meet the prerequisite to use a grenade.

But it is still subject to the other restrictions for firing that weapon. It must be in range, you cannot have advanced. Same thing.

 Stux wrote:
But it is still subject to the other restrictions for firing that weapon. It must be in range, you cannot have advanced. Same thing.

Unless the weapon in question has a rule that allows it to fire after advancing such as assault weapons.

Here is the advance rule:

Advancing
When you pick a unit to move in the Movement phase, you can declare that it will Advance. Roll a dice and add the result to the Move characteristics of all models in the unit for that Movement phase. A unit that Advances can’t shoot or charge later that turn.

Here is the Assault weapon rule
A model with an Assault weapon can fire it even if it Advanced earlier that turn. If it does so, you must subtract 1 from any hit rolls made when firing that weapon this turn.

Here now is the grenade rule.
Each time a unit shoots, a single model in the unit that is equipped with Grenades may throw one instead of firing any other weapon.

The key is the part where it says insted of fireing another weapon.
After advancing you can't fire any weapons so you can't use a grenade......unless you have an assault weapon which allows you to shoot and therefore allows you to choose to throw a grenade insted.

I'm just reading the RAW here. I know it likely does not work this way but I'd like to see evidence to the contrary to be sure.

You’re misreading the RAW, just as people did when this was discussed 18+ months ago. This isn’t a new discussion, and rediscussing it won’t make you be able to throw Grenade a after advancing.

My citation? A correct reading of the RAW.

But the RAW is quoted in my last post. Can you direct me to this old discussion? I just want to make sure.

Ok, so to get this straight, you're also saying if you have an Assault weapon with a 36" range you can throw your grenade 36" after advancing right?

Because if you're saying the "may throw a grenade" part overrides the part about advancing and shooting with non-assault weapons, then it surely must override the range requirement. Because you "may throw a grenade" right?

No I am saying you can throw a grenade it's listed range... where are you getting 36" from?

Timeshadow wrote:
No I am saying you can throw a grenade it's listed range... where are you getting 36" from?

Why would you think you could ignore the requirement to not have advanced when throwing the grenade, but not ignore it's range then? What makes you draw a line between those two? Looks totally arbitrary to me.

Grenades have different rules from all other shooting weapons. It says that you can toss one instead of shooting with one model in the unit. I'm happy to be wrong. It's no big deal. I just wanted more than because I said so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stux wrote:

Timeshadow wrote:
No I am saying you can throw a grenade it's listed range... where are you getting 36" from?

Why would you think you could ignore the requirement to not have advanced when throwing the grenade, but not ignore it's range then? What makes you draw a line between those two? Looks totally arbitrary to me.

It's not arbitrary. The rule says "may" use a grenade. So if I can shoot then I may..again if I'm in range ECT use a grenade. Is there any other weapon that has a condition on useage like a grenade?

If you still need to check range then you need to check you haven't advanced. That's it.

The short answer is no, for the reasons described by other people. That's also ignoring the fact you can't fire even assault weapons after advancing, RaW.

From Rules Primer.
Advancing -. A unit that Advances can’t shoot
or charge later that turn.

Also From Rules Primer
Assault - A model with an Assault weapon can fire
it even if it Advanced earlier that turn. If
it does so, you must subtract 1 from any
hit rolls made when firing that weapon
this turn

You can totally fire an assault weapon. You have a general rule saying you can't any weapons and then a more specific one following saying you can fire for only assault weapons.

Grenades aren't assault weapons, the rules primer says that generally you can use a grenade when you can fire "any weapon" but if you have a situation where you can't fire any weapon (advancing). Then you still can't fire a grenade, because the grenade rule is generic applied for all weapon types doesn't say specifically anything about assault weapons which have a very specific rule.

There is a difference between unit and model, but that is not the point of this thread.

You can't fire a Grenade after advancing because the rules say you can't.

The rules are perfectly clear in both cases (being able to shoot assault weapons after advancing but not being able to throw grenades). Nobody plays it any other way.

I agree with the others The exception to not shooting after advancing comes from the weapon itself, not the model. Grenades don't have that exception and neither does the model, therefore it can't be done. Once you switch from assault to grenade, you no longer have the "may shoot even if advanced" rule.

Ok that seems logical. Like I said I had just read the rules in question and the wording seemed odd. Not to mention grenades are classicly used in assault actions before for example charging a trench or fortified position so it seemed to make sense to me. I am happy to be proven wrong.