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Taking this to an ITC tournament. Would love to hear your thoughts.

UPDATE: Probably going back to my old list:


Original posted list:

Mixed Forgeworlds for maximum strategem abuse.

Infantry are a combination of Catachans and Skitarii. They spend most of the game running to cap objectives, screening/walling against melee, and not really shooting. The -1T aura from the Vanguard synergizes well with the +1S in CC; against T3, I'm wounding on 2+. The Vanguard also are Graia for access to Abhor the Witch. I would like to squeeze a fifth unit of Catachans in, but can't find the points.

Cawlstar is the foundation of the shooting. Wrath of Mars pretty much lets them bury any target in mortal wounds, including enemy Knights. Their primary targets are <T6 infantry and bikes though.

6x Ryzaphrons are dedicated anti-tank. With Dominus and the new formation, they get RR1 to hit, +1 to hit, +1 to wound, and +1D. I take an Officer of the Fleet with a Dagger to hide the Ryzaphrons throughout round 1 and outflank them on round 2 to devastating effect.

Krast Styrix rounds out the firebase. He has built-in Ion Bulwark, Sanctuary, and Omnispex, so he pretty much gets his choice of WLT and Relics, and I pretty much always take the Household exclusives (First Knight and Headsman's Mark), but has the choice of taking a Ravager as well to kill T8 Imperium vehicles lacking an invulnerable save. The Dominus tags along repairing him and waiting to call down the Ryzaphrons. With Necromechanic, that's 4 wounds per turn.

Looking for feedback on the following specifically:
1) I took Necromechanic on the Dominus for the longterm durability advantage that comes with Tech Adepts on a lone Knight (Rotate and Resurgent every turn!). But I don't know what Relic to take. Pimp Cane is a nice default, but I don't really see it being much use outside of repairing Kataphrons (but I will mostly be repairing the Knight). Other candidates include Raiment (not so useful unless the Kastelans are nearby), Weapon XCIX (shooty Dominus), and Pseudogenetor (choppy Dominus).
2) I am considering cutting a Kastelan for an Assassin and... not sure where to put the last 25 points. I could give the Rad-cleanser to the Knight, but the math on the Siege Claw is worse than a Reaper Chainsword against T6-7 vehicles with >W10.
3) One of the more fundamental problems with the list is that I can only take one formation, so the Kastelan Robots cannot run and gun. This is fine if you play more conservatively, but I was wondering if maybe triple Icarus Crawlers might be better. The spare points can go toward an Assassin. Thing is, Cawl is much less efficient at 336 points of shooting.

But yeah, if anything else stands out, I would like to hear your input.

I agree with you regarding Cawls limited utility with only 3 crawlers.

Crazy idea incoming, would swapping to stygies and trading Cawl for a TPD +3x icarus crawler, + assassin + 3x dragoon and left over points be worthwile?

I mean you lose a bit of firepower but gain a lot of flexibility/durability


*edit*

Or alternatively stick with Cawl and the Dunecrawlers but add in a Wyvern and assassin? Maybe squeeze in a cheeky mortar if you are able

I would probably just build a Stygies or Agripinaa Brigade at that point. Haha.

But I do think mixed detachment gives me the most advantages for the least sacrifices. Just dump CP into wound generation.

I think the danger in this list is that your paying a lot for cawl and you are then making very little use out of him (no breachers no ballistarii no onagers. Especially if you ditch a robot.

You also have a very heavy investment in guard characters which you dont really make use of because you only have a tiny amount of guard.

I mean almost 25% of your list is buffing characters which is a huge proportion.

Your running CP light I would consider making the styrix your warlord and not takeing an admech relic

It feels like youve taken elements of lists that can be good when their focussed on but by combineing them youve compounded the taxes and made the list weaker than either as a result

Just came here to say that your list name is amazing.

The list I'm working right now is called "Cluster Bomb VI"

U02dah4 wrote:
I think the danger in this list is that your paying a lot for cawl and you are then making very little use out of him (no breachers no ballistarii no onagers. Especially if you ditch a robot.

You also have a very heavy investment in guard characters which you dont really make use of because you only have a tiny amount of guard.

I mean almost 25% of your list is buffing characters which is a huge proportion.

Your running CP light I would consider making the styrix your warlord and not takeing an admech relic

It feels like youve taken elements of lists that can be good when their focussed on but by combineing them youve compounded the taxes and made the list weaker than either as a result

Well, this definitely isn't a bubble list. In my prior games, having multiple characters has been useful for playing objectives, which this list is very much designed to do. However, I do worry about only bringing 40 Guardsmen. I would like to fit another 10 in for redundancy, but I cannot find the points.

While it is true that I have 445 points of characters, I do think they are worth it. Cawl aura was easily efficient at 240 points with 6 Robots (in the sense that at 6 Robots, his aura alone is worth 2 Robots). Should be efficient at 190 with 5. I will do the math later tonight. A Dominus is specifically necessary to buff the Kataphrons. Plus, he does double duty repairing and buffing the Knight. All of the Catachan officers are worth it too. Straken has a crazy strong body, actually. And Orders, being based on unit count, are efficient given they translate into VP. In the worst case though, I can see myself cutting Straken and MiniPriest for a Wyvern and making the detachment Vostroyan or Cadian.

I don't think I can make my Styrix my Warlord. He's not a character in a Super-heavy Auxiliary detachment.

Except its not a more accurate statement with respects to cawls aura if you have 6 robots its worth 1.5 robots at most in terms of damage output as it inceases hit from 50% to75% 3-4.5 the only way to modify this is elimination violley but you are differnt forgeworlds so can't use it. In addition that increase is also proportionate to your surviving bots if i kill 3 t1 hes only adding 0.75 robots. Unlike buying extra robots he doesnt increase their survivability

It comes down to yes the characters help but a character buffing 4 units is helping more than a character buffing 1.

If your going down the guard route you want 60-120 guardsmen to justify those characters. The only way to free up those point ditch cawl and a robot

If your going down the cawl route you.Want him to be buffing at least twice the units you have now. So adios guard

I think the problem with the robots, and ultimately why you haven't seen them sitting on top lists, is the fact that they can't move.

If you don't kill something that MUST die the turn you lock them into place, and they are able to maneuver said unit so that you LoS the robots, it simply becomes a matter of either avoiding them or getting them tied up in CC.

Someone seeing your army while it is being placed on the table is going to consider that when deploying and playing. Sure in some games the terrain won't be terrible in regards to LoS, but I think ultimately it is what holds them back.

U02dah4 wrote:
Except its not a more accurate statement with respects to cawls aura if you have 6 robots its worth 1.5 robots at most in terms of damage output as it inceases hit from 50% to75% 3-4.5 the only way to modify this is elimination violley but you are differnt forgeworlds so can't use it. In addition that increase is also proportionate to your surviving bots if i kill 3 t1 hes only adding 0.75 robots. Unlike buying extra robots he doesnt increase their survivability

It comes down to yes the characters help but a character buffing 4 units is helping more than a character buffing 1.

If your going down the guard route you want 60-120 guardsmen to justify those characters. The only way to free up those point ditch cawl and a robot

If your going down the cawl route you.Want him to be buffing at least twice the units you have now. So adios guard

True. I am only looking at wound output, as that is what Cawl buffs. However, Cawl is more durable than a Robot, and he has his own weapons. Haha.

Actually, I have been using these officers with 50 Guardsmen for some time, and it's been pretty good. But yes, 40 is a bit low. I will consider the Catachan concept again. Hell, maybe I can try Skitarii again. In which case, I might run two AdMech battalions.

Ceann wrote:
I think the problem with the robots, and ultimately why you haven't seen them sitting on top lists, is the fact that they can't move.

If you don't kill something that MUST die the turn you lock them into place, and they are able to maneuver said unit so that you LoS the robots, it simply becomes a matter of either avoiding them or getting them tied up in CC.

Someone seeing your army while it is being placed on the table is going to consider that when deploying and playing. Sure in some games the terrain won't be terrible in regards to LoS, but I think ultimately it is what holds them back.

Well, you haven't seen AdMech sitting in top lists at all in the past. But I contend this notion. First, the best pre-CA 2018 AdMech lists all had Cawlstar in them. Second, pretty much all of the 5-0 AdMech lists at LVO aside from Justin Lois's list had Robots in them. Robots are great, even if they have limitations. In fact, your point on the opponent having to play around Robots or try to tie them in CC is precisely why they are good. They can pretty much purge all infantry within a 36" radius of them with LOS.

That being said, I do recognize that Orks and Eldar have some really annoying anti-Robot tools, so playing conservative is important.

Honestly I think the other 2 guys, U02dah4 and Ceann have some good points and you just seem to be ignoring them - which is the exact opposite of what this area is supposed to be for...
You mention that the reason for the hodgepodge of different forgeworlds is so that you have access to all of the Strategems but then there are only 9 CP for those CP shenanigans.
You seem to have not committed to any synergies but then are expecting them all to work for you. I honestly wish you luck with the list but I don’t think you’re helping yourself when you come up against an actual pro

Would like to further point out that at the LVO the most top lists were either running Dragoons, or running Servitor Maniple, and that plasma Kataphrons were one of the most successful units.

Whereas the robots were not.

You have too much maneuverability, from things like Jetbikes that have -2 to enemy shooting, that can zip around terrain and charge whatever aura man you have near the robots and then use the pile in move to get you into CC without letting you fire a shot.

TinnierLemon wrote:
Honestly I think the other 2 guys, U02dah4 and Ceann have some good points and you just seem to be ignoring them - which is the exact opposite of what this area is supposed to be for...
You mention that the reason for the hodgepodge of different forgeworlds is so that you have access to all of the Strategems but then there are only 9 CP for those CP shenanigans.
You seem to have not committed to any synergies but then are expecting them all to work for you. I honestly wish you luck with the list but I don’t think you’re helping yourself when you come up against an actual pro

Really? I've been talking to U02dah4 on these issues for weeks now. And I actually said I would consider all of his suggestions except the one that would have made my list illegal. Honestly though, if you have something to say about the list, say it, but go white knight somewhere else.

Ceann wrote:
Would like to further point out that at the LVO the most top lists were either running Dragoons, or running Servitor Maniple, and that plasma Kataphrons were one of the most successful units.

Whereas the robots were not.

You have too much maneuverability, from things like Jetbikes that have -2 to enemy shooting, that can zip around terrain and charge whatever aura man you have near the robots and then use the pile in move to get you into CC without letting you fire a shot.

When you say "most," you seem to only be describing Justin Lois's list. He was the only AdMech with Dragoons and no Kastelans. And this list did not have the Plasmaphrons. Every other 5-0 AdMech list did have Kastelans. If you have a specific person's list in mind, please name him so I can look him up. That being said, it's pretty hard to recommend removing one of the core components of the list. I would pretty much be switching to Drills and Dragoons if I took out the Kastelans. (Not that it's a bad list, just very different than this one.)

AdMech has been screening and countercharging to protect Robots since 8E began. There was a time when Smash Captain shenanigans made them really weak, but now that we have no-fly charges, it is not as easy to get into CC with Robots as you'd think. The greater threat is actually Fire and Fade-style jetbike play that gets out of LOS after shooting, which I will have to rely on my Plasmaphrons or Knight to counter. But Kastelans are still able to control the ground that they are rooted to defend, and that is one of the core reasons why they are good.

This all being said, I may just cut the Knight and take the list I am more familiar with (I will update OP). I think it's less consistent though, actually. It's tough to beat a Castellan without bringing a Knight yourself.

Ok yeah my bad for over sharing :-)

Honestly, I like the robots although I run them as close combat murder bots.

I think I prefer the updated list. At least you have some more units to make the most of cawl’s bubble.
I don’t entirely see the point in the cybernetica cohort as Cawl gets no benefit. It seems from first glance to only give you access to the treat heavy as assault stratagem? Is there some other synergy I’m not seeing?
Could you not swap Cawl and the other mars tech priest in order to take the cohort specific relic? Only thing there is it would have to be a dominus or an enginseer. You could then also spend a CP for field commander?

Also have you considered agrinipaa for the servitors? For the tide of traitors type stratagem

The punchy robots are definitely fun, especially with the new formation.

Yeah, it's the list that I am most familiar with and have had the most success with. It's beaten Ynnari, Orks, all manner of Space Marines, and Triptides quite convincingly multiple times. But I am not consistent against Imperial Soup. Those Castellans are brutal, and I don't like my odds on a long deployment where he can start out of range of the Kastelans. That is why I am trying to fit the Knight back in, but it does seem like I am sacrificing some of my more distinct advantages.

I went Cohort to give my Kastelans Assault weapons, yes. It's a nice to have, but it is not strictly mandatory; I see it as a 2 CP to get +1 hit on the first turn essentially, which can be bit against any Eldar matchup.

The Cohort relic is not that great, in my opinion. It's too easy for an opponent to play around due to the one-round windup. Overriding and just deleting 300+ points of models off the board in one massive volley is much more impactful. And even if they charge your Kastelans with a unit of say, Shining Spears, you've killed 300+ points and forced your opponent to commit another 200-300 points to wrap your unit. That's a great deal.

I had a unit of Graia Servitors before, but I found that my Destroyers are too squishy to benefit from them.

 Suzuteo wrote:

TinnierLemon wrote:
Honestly I think the other 2 guys, U02dah4 and Ceann have some good points and you just seem to be ignoring them - which is the exact opposite of what this area is supposed to be for...
You mention that the reason for the hodgepodge of different forgeworlds is so that you have access to all of the Strategems but then there are only 9 CP for those CP shenanigans.
You seem to have not committed to any synergies but then are expecting them all to work for you. I honestly wish you luck with the list but I don’t think you’re helping yourself when you come up against an actual pro

Really? I've been talking to U02dah4 on these issues for weeks now. And I actually said I would consider all of his suggestions except the one that would have made my list illegal. Honestly though, if you have something to say about the list, say it, but go white knight somewhere else.

Ceann wrote:
Would like to further point out that at the LVO the most top lists were either running Dragoons, or running Servitor Maniple, and that plasma Kataphrons were one of the most successful units.

Whereas the robots were not.

You have too much maneuverability, from things like Jetbikes that have -2 to enemy shooting, that can zip around terrain and charge whatever aura man you have near the robots and then use the pile in move to get you into CC without letting you fire a shot.

When you say "most," you seem to only be describing Justin Lois's list. He was the only AdMech with Dragoons and no Kastelans. And this list did not have the Plasmaphrons. Every other 5-0 AdMech list did have Kastelans. If you have a specific person's list in mind, please name him so I can look him up. That being said, it's pretty hard to recommend removing one of the core components of the list. I would pretty much be switching to Drills and Dragoons if I took out the Kastelans. (Not that it's a bad list, just very different than this one.)

AdMech has been screening and countercharging to protect Robots since 8E began. There was a time when Smash Captain shenanigans made them really weak, but now that we have no-fly charges, it is not as easy to get into CC with Robots as you'd think. The greater threat is actually Fire and Fade-style jetbike play that gets out of LOS after shooting, which I will have to rely on my Plasmaphrons or Knight to counter. But Kastelans are still able to control the ground that they are rooted to defend, and that is one of the core reasons why they are good.

This all being said, I may just cut the Knight and take the list I am more familiar with (I will update OP). I think it's less consistent though, actually. It's tough to beat a Castellan without bringing a Knight yourself.

I am not referring to Lois list... they took statistics from ALL of the lists and ranked units by how they appeared to effect win rates of players. The lists using plasmaphrons were in general more successful than others that did not. Sure Lois didn't have them but that doesn't mean that all players who used kataphrons ended up doing better than those using robots, means nothing. As for specific lists I don't have those offhand, but that is what was reported on Forge the Narrative, so I am assuming they are accurate.

As an afterthought, I think mortars,wyverns, basilisks would best compliment dakka bots. The ability to punish them for moving up slowly or hiding behind terrain vs forcing them to run into the robots to get at your artillery would probably be something to consider.