Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

hi guys,

1. Failed Savior Protocol rolls: because I have a propensity to roll lots of 1's, does the target unit still get to make their armor save (if applicable) or does the opponent go straight to rolling for damage?

2. For the Greater Good: I get that once declared, other units can't fire overwatch again. how does this interact with multiple charges against several units within 6" of each other? i.e if a tau unit (unit A) is charged (and the assaulting unit fails the charge/destroyed,etc) that unit can still fire overwatch if it's charged again per the BrB but can it be activated using For the Greater Good to cover another unit if its within 6" of another unit being charged?

thanks,

Malfurious wrote:
hi guys,

1. Failed Savior Protocol rolls: because I have a propensity to roll lots of 1's, does the target unit still get to make their armor save (if applicable) or does the opponent go straight to rolling for damage?

2. For the Greater Good: I get that once declared, other units can't fire overwatch again. how does this interact with multiple charges against several units within 6" of each other? i.e if a tau unit (unit A) is charged (and the assaulting unit fails the charge/destroyed,etc) that unit can still fire overwatch if it's charged again per the BrB but can it be activated using For the Greater Good to cover another unit if its within 6" of another unit being charged?

thanks,

1. They still get to make their save (armour saves don't exist in 8th edition, it's either Save or Invulnerable Save). You roll for Saviour Protocols when the model is wounded, it doesn't mean you skip the rest of the attacking sequence. So the sequence essentially goes Hit Roll > Wound Roll > Saviour Protocols Roll > If Failed: Allocate Wound | If Successful: Allocate the Mortal Wound to the Drone unit > Saving Throw > Inflict Damage > Ignore Wounds abilities.

2. For The Greater Good only denies further Overwatch that turn if they were activated via For The Greater Good. If a unit does normal Overwatch, it can still be selected for For The Greater Good later on that phase, but once it has been it can no longer fire Overwatch that turn, even if it actually gets charged.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
(armour saves don't exist in 8th edition, it's either Save or Invulnerable Save).

This is demonstrably false.

It is armour save or Invulnerable save.

battle primer rules page 13 wrote:Save (Sv): This indicates the protection a model’s armour gives.(Left column 3rd graph)
Armour Penetration (AP): How good it is at getting through armour. (right column, 2nd graph)

Save on the data sheet is an armour save.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
(armour saves don't exist in 8th edition, it's either Save or Invulnerable Save).

This is demonstrably false.

It is armour save or Invulnerable save.

battle primer rules page 13 wrote:Save (Sv): This indicates the protection a model’s armour gives.(Left column 3rd graph)
Armour Penetration (AP): How good it is at getting through armour. (right column, 2nd graph)

Save on the data sheet is an armour save.

Actually it's a save. It doesn't specify armour save. It is also modified by cover, which back when we had such things as armour saves we also had cover saves as a separate type of save. So, you have a normal save now and an invulnerable save as the two categories.

 doctortom wrote:

Actually it's a save. It doesn't specify armour save. It is also modified by cover, which back when we had such things as armour saves we also had cover saves as a separate type of save. So, you have a normal save now and an invulnerable save as the two categories.

Except is does specify armour save.

battle primer rules page 13 wrote:Save (Sv): This indicates the protection a model’s armour gives.(Left column 3rd graph)

(Emphasis mine)

It literally says right there (bolded and underlined) that is is an armour save...

That's fluff text. It's called a save, not an armor save. This is because its modified by cover. It's still generally understood that any non invulnerable save is often referred to as an armor save, but this is not RAW.

 Horst wrote:
That's fluff text. It's called a save, not an armor save. This is because its modified by cover. It's still generally understood that any non invulnerable save is often referred to as an armor save, but this is not RAW.

It is not fluff it is a description of the type of save. It is RAW, and I have posted rules to prove that it is an armour save as per the RAW. The save is quite literally an armour save. Armour saves are modified by cover in 8th ed.

If it is an Armour Save, show us the words Armour Save in the Core Rules. Save is a model characteristic that represents the protection provided by Armour, but it technically is not an Armour Save.

That being said, GW frequently ignores this with the Astra Militarium FAQ document being a good example.

 alextroy wrote:
If it is an Armour Save, show us the words Armour Save in the Core Rules. Save is a model characteristic that represents the protection provided by Armour, but it technically is not an Armour Save.

That being said, GW frequently ignores this with the Astra Militarium FAQ document being a good example.

I already have. battle primer rules page 13 says it is a save because of Armour.

But the AM FAQ also calls it an Armour Save, so RAW it is an Armour Save.

Note the following is ERRATA not an FaQ so it is 100% RAW that it is an Armour Save.

Astra Militarium FAQ (ERRATA section) wrote:Page 102 – Ogryn Bodyguard, Slabshield
Change this ability to read:
‘Add 2 to armour saving throws for a model equipped with a slabshield (invulnerable saving throws are not affected).’

From:
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/warhammer_40000_astra_militarum_en-2.pdf

Okay, can we please move on from the "is a save an armour save" argument and address the questions posed.

Those FAQs actually cause the rule to no longer function. I am sorry if the RAW upsets you but it is what it is. As alextroy says, please show us where the phrase "Armour Save" is in the rulebook?

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Those FAQs actually cause the rule to no longer function. I am sorry if the RAW upsets you but it is what it is. As alextroy says, please show us where the phrase "Armour Save" is in the rulebook?

Incorrect, it actually proves that it is an armour save...

And who said the RAW upsets anyone?

I have quoted where "the phrase "Armour Save" is" it is in the AM book due to the errata...

We are done here then.