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If I had a Librarian and a 10 man Vanguard Veteran Squad in a Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer can the Librarian cast Veil of Time & Might of Heroes onto the 10 men whilst all onboard?
Then before they disembark have the 10 man VV Squad use the Tactical Flexibility stratagem to split into 2 squads of 5. Would both squads be subject to the Veil of Time & Might of Heroes cast on the original 10 man squad?

I'm thinking these guys in a Victrix Guard detachment with a Captain all with TH/SS and basically knocking stuff of the table, if this extra Librarian boost is legal then I could probably knock off 2 Knights at once.

As a general rule, models embarked on transports cannot do anything or be affected by anything. The only exception is if the rule explicitly says otherwise.

So an embarked librarian cannot use psychic powers, and embarked models cannot be directly affected by psychic powers.

Also, Might of Heroes only effects a single model, not an entire unit.

 ikeulhu wrote:
Also, Might of Heroes only effects a single model, not an entire unit.

Correct. General rule of thumb, if a Librarius power looks good you've probably read it wrong

Well that's that idea out of the window, back to the drawing board it is then. Thanks

Goldenbrew wrote:
If I had a Librarian and a 10 man Vanguard Veteran Squad in a Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer can the Librarian cast Veil of Time & Might of Heroes onto the 10 men whilst all onboard?
Then before they disembark have the 10 man VV Squad use the Tactical Flexibility stratagem to split into 2 squads of 5. Would both squads be subject to the Veil of Time & Might of Heroes cast on the original 10 man squad?

I'm thinking these guys in a Victrix Guard detachment with a Captain all with TH/SS and basically knocking stuff of the table, if this extra Librarian boost is legal then I could probably knock off 2 Knights at once.

If you can show how to measure to a unit that has been, and I quote, "removed from the battlefield", go ahead.

You cannot cast powers on an embarked unit not from an embarked psyker, because you cannot measure to either, in addition to the fact the Psyker is not on the battlefield so cannot be selected to cast a power. Likewise, you cannot use Tactical Flexibility on a unit that is embarked.

After thought if I used Veil of Time on a 10 man squad and then used Tactical Flexibility (all on the board this time) would the 2 5-man squads still be under Veil of Time?

Goldenbrew wrote:
After thought if I used Veil of Time on a 10 man squad and then used Tactical Flexibility (all on the board this time) would the 2 5-man squads still be under Veil of Time?

I'd definitely say yes, but I don't think it's been explicitly called out in any FAQ.

But don't you use Tactical Flexibility in the Movement Phase, which is before the Psychic Phase?

 alextroy wrote:
But don't you use Tactical Flexibility in the Movement Phase, which is before the Psychic Phase?

In which case it technically works, but you'll only have the benefit of it for the rest of the movement phase :p

You'd use Veil of Time on the 10-man squad during the Psychic Phase, then use Tactical Flexibility at the start of the movement phase to get 2 5-man squads both with Veil of Time until the start of your next psychic phase. So you'll have 2 squads that can re-roll failed charges rather than just 1. I wanted to know if the 2 squads would still keep Veil of Time after being split from 1, effectively getting double bubble from the Librarian.

The rules dont say if a splitted unit still benefits from psychic powers.

Goldenbrew wrote:
You'd use Veil of Time on the 10-man squad during the Psychic Phase, then use Tactical Flexibility at the start of the movement phase to get 2 5-man squads both with Veil of Time until the start of your next psychic phase. So you'll have 2 squads that can re-roll failed charges rather than just 1. I wanted to know if the 2 squads would still keep Veil of Time after being split from 1, effectively getting double bubble from the Librarian.

Except that doesn't work.

Movement happens BEFORE Psychic, so if VoT applies to both squads, you'd basically only get the movement benefits, not the charging.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Goldenbrew wrote:
You'd use Veil of Time on the 10-man squad during the Psychic Phase, then use Tactical Flexibility at the start of the movement phase to get 2 5-man squads both with Veil of Time until the start of your next psychic phase. So you'll have 2 squads that can re-roll failed charges rather than just 1. I wanted to know if the 2 squads would still keep Veil of Time after being split from 1, effectively getting double bubble from the Librarian.

Except that doesn't work.

Movement happens BEFORE Psychic, so if VoT applies to both squads, you'd basically only get the movement benefits, not the charging.

Well, you would get the charging benefit if you wanted to use it, but it would be after the Psychic Phase and before the next Movement Phase, so it would still be only 1 10 man unit at that point.

 p5freak wrote:
The rules dont say if a splitted unit still benefits from psychic powers.

The rules also don't say I can't feed Sammy the Calculus Dolphin a bacon sandwich to automatically pass a morale test either. The rules say what you can do, then add restrictions on top of that. The rules say the unit benefits from Veil of Time until the next friendly Psychic Phase, so if they split into multiple units before that, then both halves retain the buff because no rule has said otherwise.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The rules dont say if a splitted unit still benefits from psychic powers.

The rules also don't say I can't feed Sammy the Calculus Dolphin a bacon sandwich to automatically pass a morale test either. The rules say what you can do, then add restrictions on top of that. The rules say the unit benefits from Veil of Time until the next friendly Psychic Phase, so if they split into multiple units before that, then both halves retain the buff because no rule has said otherwise.

Feed me a bacon sandwich and I'd let you automatically pass a morale test.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The rules dont say if a splitted unit still benefits from psychic powers.

The rules also don't say I can't feed Sammy the Calculus Dolphin a bacon sandwich to automatically pass a morale test either. The rules say what you can do, then add restrictions on top of that. The rules say the unit benefits from Veil of Time until the next friendly Psychic Phase, so if they split into multiple units before that, then both halves retain the buff because no rule has said otherwise.

Except they are not the unit that the power was cast upon since they are now "two separate units" (as per the Blood Angels Strat. I do not know if the others are worded the same way)

Historically GW has treated models that split off from a unit that had something cast on it as still being affected by the power. It had been more with Independent Characters in previous editions, but also applied to Combat squads. There's no indication that their thinking has changed on how GW would handle this.

How is this even a conversation still? It is hypothetical and not even a rules discussion.

The stratagem has to be used at the start of the movement phase, prior to psychic phase.

Discussing how it would be treated should the scenario ever come up is pointless because there is no way for the scenario to come up.

Just like we aren't discussing the issue of a Reaver Titan being inside of a Rhino as a passenger.

Ceann wrote:
How is this even a conversation still? It is hypothetical and not even a rules discussion.

The stratagem has to be used at the start of the movement phase, prior to psychic phase.

Discussing how it would be treated should the scenario ever come up is pointless because there is no way for the scenario to come up.

Just like we aren't discussing the issue of a Reaver Titan being inside of a Rhino as a passenger.

Dont engage in rules discussions if you dont know the rules You manifest veil of time on your unit, it lasts until the start of your next psychic phase. In your next movement phase, which is BEFORE your psychic phase, you use the stratagem to split the unit.