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if there was chainsword duel between 2 assault brothers of different loyalist chapters, which chapter would b the most likely 2 lose? (Lamenters not included bc of their bad luck)

i heard that tabletop wise Iron Hands have the worst assault brothers (not sure about that) but lore wise they are the chapter which keeps their loses in battles 2 minimum and h8s weakness so i think all of them should b trained vry well
on the other hand they rely on superior technology and close combat training may b not as important 4 them as bolter training

i'm also thinking about Imperial Fists because they rely on bolters way more than on their chainswords and used 2 have some failures on their account (mayb just bc they don't like 2 retreat)
they also got their defensive style of combat which also doesn't favors close combat

lemme know ur opinion both lore wise and tabletop wise

praise the Emperor

Rules wise? Probably Dark Angels. Their CT doesn't help Assault Marines very much, aside letting only 1 dying from morale.

Between rules and strategems most chapters have something that helps out, even a little.
Of the Codex chapters:

Ultramarines are probably the second worst. +1LD is not all that in this case, and the fall back and shoot is not something you generally want from assault troops (which probably have jump packs anyway)

WS can fall back and charge, which is nice

IF have basically nothing barring the bolter drill strat for sidearms. Bottom of the pack here.

BT get a charge boost. Useful for getting stuck in.

Salamanders get the re-rolls. always useful.

RG have deployment tricks, but that’s about it.

IH slightly tougher.

So some chapters can help you get in CC a little better, others help you fight, and some do next to nothing.

From a fluff POV, I don’t think any chapters were ever described as “bad”. There where the ones who excelled, and then the generic pack of average.

It's funny that imperial fists now tend to rely heavily on shooting.
Throughout the heresy their elite units were mainly close combat orientated and damn good at it.
Shame they didn't keep to that in 40k.

Jackal90 wrote:
It's funny that imperial fists now tend to rely heavily on shooting.
Throughout the heresy their elite units were mainly close combat orientated and damn good at it.
Shame they didn't keep to that in 40k.

I feel they always tended towards ranged combat in 40k. Fleshing out Heresy came much later, so if anything it's the other way around!

Sigismund was of course an Imperial Fist, and arguably the best one on one fighter of the 30k era (depending on your metric). But again, all that fleshing out came much later than the chapter.

j3lly wrote:
if there was chainsword duel between 2 assault brothers of different loyalist chapters, which chapter would b the most likely 2 lose?

Tabletop -
Top fighters - Space Wolves (+1 to hit), Blood Angels (+1 to wound), Salamanders (reroll to hit and to wound)
Advantaged - Iron Hands (extra save), White Scars (option to drop back and charge each turn)
No advantage - Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, Black Templars

Fluff wise - Rainbow Warriors. The were created as a political joke, getting beaten up by the battle sisters.

Is everyone who says Imperial Fists are the worst ignoring the Feast of Blades?

All of the direct Imperial Fists successors send a champion to take part in the Feast of Blades, and considering that the Imperial Fists don't always lose to the Black Templars, I think it's worth assuming they're not bad at duelling.

My money for the Chapter with the worst melee (of course, going from ones we actually know decent bits about, because it could always just be Random Chapter 563) might be the Raptors or the Iron Hands.

The Raptors seem to engage in war a lot more similarly to our modern tactics, where melee combat isn't so prevalent. With the Iron Hands, I seem to remember somewhere that they were somewhat slower than their brothers from other Chapter.

 Nevelon wrote:
Between rules and strategems most chapters have something that helps out, even a little.
Of the Codex chapters:

Ultramarines are probably the second worst. +1LD is not all that in this case, and the fall back and shoot is not something you generally want from assault troops (which probably have jump packs anyway)

WS can fall back and charge, which is nice

IF have basically nothing barring the bolter drill strat for sidearms. Bottom of the pack here.

BT get a charge boost. Useful for getting stuck in.

Salamanders get the re-rolls. always useful.

RG have deployment tricks, but that’s about it.

IH slightly tougher.

So some chapters can help you get in CC a little better, others help you fight, and some do next to nothing.

From a fluff POV, I don’t think any chapters were ever described as “bad”. There where the ones who excelled, and then the generic pack of average.

Raven Guard's deployment tricks allow them a decent shot at successful turn 1 charges. Getting to take the first swing isn't exactly a minor advantage if you're trying to decide who has the best assault troops.

Op: "Who has the best assault troops in a dual?"
Raven Guard: "Honorable duals are for suckers."

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Is everyone who says Imperial Fists are the worst ignoring the Feast of Blades?

All of the direct Imperial Fists successors send a champion to take part in the Feast of Blades, and considering that the Imperial Fists don't always lose to the Black Templars, I think it's worth assuming they're not bad at duelling.

My money for the Chapter with the worst melee (of course, going from ones we actually know decent bits about, because it could always just be Random Chapter 563) might be the Raptors or the Iron Hands.

The Raptors seem to engage in war a lot more similarly to our modern tactics, where melee combat isn't so prevalent. With the Iron Hands, I seem to remember somewhere that they were somewhat slower than their brothers from other Chapter.

I've not read a ton on Iron hands, but a bit and I have never read anything saying they were slower. If anything what I have read is that on average they are superior to nearly every other marine due to their cybernetic enhancements giving them all sorts of advantages on top of their superior durability. I remember one audio drama where an Iron hands gets absolutely impaled by a tyranid warrior which would have been a fatal wound if not for the fact nearly all of his organs were cybernetic so he just got angry and shot it to death before fighting on and surviving the battle.