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A friend and I have been talking about getting back into 40k, and he has settled on Eldar of Iyanden. I'm going to go with demons of Slaanesh just because I think it would be fun, was thinking give fleet Kraken but changed my mind, as it just seems like the perfect opportunity to start working on deamonettes and such.

Anyways I want to build and paint a wraithlord for him as a gift, as his birthday is next month and he is dealing with some bad events in his life right now, I think it would be a great surprise and really put a smile on his face.

So my question is if you were playing Iyanden and expected to fight against demons mostly what weapons would you use for the wraithlord? I would get him a Wknight but I dont really want to spend that, I only have a month to finish, and we are starting around 500 points. Thanks for the read and any advice.

The best option would be to magnetize it, so the weapons can be swapped.

But if you're going with a fixed build I'd go with shuriken catapults and either brightlances for big stuff, or starcannons for small stuff. This is specifically anti-demon though.

Missile launchers are also a good compromise choice. Though less AP and more expensive than the B.Lances, they do have duel modes of fire.

Personally I prefer double-flamers and it would be ideal if facing Slaanesh daemons, etc. They're a little pricey but very helpful when being charged by horde creatures (which can easily tie up a Wraithlord as it has only four attacks or something).

I'd agree with magnetizing, but Wraithlords are kind of poorly built for magnets. If you were making one set-up? I'd go with...

2x Flamers (protection and anti-chaff)
1x Bright Lance (hit harder targets)
1x Shuriken Cannon (shoot on the move)
Optional sword?

I don't use the swrod because I think it looks a bit silly but it's not a terribly expensive option.

sword, catapults on wrists, and one or two shuriken cannons.

I really won't be able to go that extra mile with magnets, as I know work is going to get crazy soon, and I have some other responsibilities as well. I think a month will give me enough time to work on it, and procrastinate a bit and deal with my other obligations. I dont know much about Eldar, and dont plan on buying the codex or index or whatever it is nowadays just for this one project. But I do want my friend to be happy with it and have it be somewhat effective.

My goal for a list is probably 1 or 2 princes maybe 3 If that's allowed and not too cheesey, a soul grinder, and a nice hoard of deamonettes, and probably a herald for smaller games, maybe a couple fiends if it gets that far. Of course a keeper of secrets if a new model ever comes out. it looks like one hasn't since last time I ever looke into GW. I rage quit when primaris came out lol.

I'd go with the bright lances then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
Personally I prefer double-flamers and it would be ideal if facing Slaanesh daemons, etc. They're a little pricey but very helpful when being charged by horde creatures (which can easily tie up a Wraithlord as it has only four attacks or something).

I'd agree with magnetizing, but Wraithlords are kind of poorly built for magnets. If you were making one set-up? I'd go with...

2x Flamers (protection and anti-chaff)
1x Bright Lance (hit harder targets)
1x Shuriken Cannon (shoot on the move)
Optional sword?

I don't use the swrod because I think it looks a bit silly but it's not a terribly expensive option.

You can pin the shoulder guns instead, their weight will keep them from falling out.
I don't like flamers, because most slannesh demons will just charge from 9 inches away and never have them used. The lord isn't really fast enough to use flamers as an offensive weapon, and there are plenty of anti-infantry options in the Eldar list.
I also don't like splitting the role for the heavy weapons, and an AT/AM role is easier to fill, with the lord staying at long range, and the wraithguard keeping things clear closer up.

I'd go cheap with it - 2 shurikan cannons and 2 catapults with fists. All them shots are very handy against an army with only a 5+ invul

I'd go with the two flamers and two scatter lasers personally.
He can provide feedback decent long range firepower and has the flamers ready to act as a speedbump when those daemonettes come screaming across the battlefield.

 6^ wrote:
I really won't be able to go that extra mile with magnets, as I know work is going to get crazy soon, and I have some other responsibilities as well.

Really? In a month you can't spare a few extra moments (maybe an hour at the extreme) to give your friend the best of all options?

 6^ wrote:
I rage quit when primaris came out lol.

I've got bad news for you. While you've been away more primaris have been added to the game.

double shuricannons, catapults and sword is by far the most fun WL loadout IMO - because it actually gets to walk around and do stuff rather than being a glorified war walker.

the_scotsman wrote:
double shuricannons, catapults and sword is by far the most fun WL loadout IMO - because it actually gets to walk around and do stuff rather than being a glorified war walker.

This is the correct choice. There's a lot of people on here telling you to take heavy weapons, it's a bad idea because Wraithlords want to be mobile to eventually reach combat, going all Shuriken at least lets them make full use of their BS3+.

One piece of advice to pass on to your friend, tell him that if he's building a Wraith army to never use the Iyanden Craftworld trait, it's functionally useless for them. Far better to go with Alaitec (competitive, but not really fun to play against) or Ulthwe (thematically fits the best).

Or if he's using wraithlords and not going full wraithhost, use Iyanden because it does help, without being one of the most broken traits in the game.

 Imateria wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
double shuricannons, catapults and sword is by far the most fun WL loadout IMO - because it actually gets to walk around and do stuff rather than being a glorified war walker.

This is the correct choice. There's a lot of people on here telling you to take heavy weapons, it's a bad idea because Wraithlords want to be mobile to eventually reach combat, going all Shuriken at least lets them make full use of their BS3+.

One piece of advice to pass on to your friend, tell him that if he's building a Wraith army to never use the Iyanden Craftworld trait, it's functionally useless for them. Far better to go with Alaitec (competitive, but not really fun to play against) or Ulthwe (thematically fits the best).

I'm not sure how you see that. Iyanden with wraith hosts unlocks the psytronome and keeps wraithlords moving/fighting. Also decent if you bump the sqds above their normal 5. Ulthwe is good too, Alaitoc, not so much.

 6^ wrote:
. Of course a keeper of secrets if a new model ever comes out. it looks like one hasn't since last time I ever looke into GW.

I'd expect that this year. One of the AoS releases will probably get a Slaanesh release and GW will kick the models and a codex over to 40K.

Being Iyanden unlocks some good stuff. But the trait is a downgrade from Uthwe for basically anything but a Black Guardian horde style army (but not the one-Guardian-blob lists we see).

The Wraithlord is actually at a higher bracket for longer with Uthwe than Iyanden on average. And that's on top of actually living longer, too.

Even if you bump units up to 6 models, you're still at best at breakeven if you lose 4 in one turn. Going beyond 6, Iyanden can, in corner cases, have an advantage - but not much. The 6+ FnP is generally more useful even with squads at 6-10 members. Never useful for most CWE squads at 5 members, though.

That's why people are suggesting Uthwe (or Alaitoc, but as said, it's the "known OP" trait).

(I'd suggest going with Iyanden's trait. He wants to play Iyanden so play that way.)

ccs wrote:

 6^ wrote:
I really won't be able to go that extra mile with magnets, as I know work is going to get crazy soon, and I have some other responsibilities as well.

Really? In a month you can't spare a few extra moments (maybe an hour at the extreme) to give your friend the best of all options?

 6^ wrote:
I rage quit when primaris came out lol.

I've got bad news for you. While you've been away more primaris have been added to the game.

Maybe you're right, I'll try and get all the weapons available. I just want to prioritize the paint.
Yeah, I have no doubt there has been more primaris. It broke my heart though at the time. I had just recently finished an entire battle company(a longtime dream that I poured a lot of heart into), with a 1st and 10th company complements, and plenty of vehicles. I'm over it now I guess, but I know I'll never buy another space marine kit the rest of my life. honestly I didn't think I would play again, but I guess ill give one more go with Slaanesh.

As far as I know, he likes the Iyanden fluff, and I know he is looking forward to painting that scheme. As far as the rules go that's on him I dont really care what he does. We are both theater of the mind types and enjoy the game for those few moments where something crazy happens or the tension of two rival units closing on each other. Which is the reason I'm choosing Slaanesh. I was thinking necrons for that ancient enemy vibe, and hive fleet kraken for obvious iconic history. But I think Slaanesh is a good choice. He has always played Dark Eldar in the past and I've always dreamed of whipping out a bunch of slaanesh on him, So at this point I just have to.

 Imateria wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
double shuricannons, catapults and sword is by far the most fun WL loadout IMO - because it actually gets to walk around and do stuff rather than being a glorified war walker.

This is the correct choice. There's a lot of people on here telling you to take heavy weapons, it's a bad idea because Wraithlords want to be mobile to eventually reach combat, going all Shuriken at least lets them make full use of their BS3+.

It depends on what you want the wraithlord to do, the shuriken/sword load out is good for moving forward and taking the fight to your opponent. Against slaanesh that's not a problem, they're going to be charging as soon as possible and so I'd go for two scatter lasers to thin out the chaff and try to put the wraithlord out in front to intercept their charge, hence the flamers. The fists are more than enough to deal with daemons so the sword seems a bit unnecessary. To save points it's reasonable to swap out the flamers for cats but I'd try to find them if possible.

 bullyboy wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
double shuricannons, catapults and sword is by far the most fun WL loadout IMO - because it actually gets to walk around and do stuff rather than being a glorified war walker.

This is the correct choice. There's a lot of people on here telling you to take heavy weapons, it's a bad idea because Wraithlords want to be mobile to eventually reach combat, going all Shuriken at least lets them make full use of their BS3+.

One piece of advice to pass on to your friend, tell him that if he's building a Wraith army to never use the Iyanden Craftworld trait, it's functionally useless for them. Far better to go with Alaitec (competitive, but not really fun to play against) or Ulthwe (thematically fits the best).

I'm not sure how you see that. Iyanden with wraith hosts unlocks the psytronome and keeps wraithlords moving/fighting. Also decent if you bump the sqds above their normal 5. Ulthwe is good too, Alaitoc, not so much.

By having repeatedly trying to play it. The Psytronome can be very good when it works but you don't always come across targets where you need that many attacks and because it's only a 6" range your psyker, who does not want to be too close to the enemy, is not always going to be close enough to use it, and most other combat armies are fast enough to be the ones that charge you so they go first to potentially remove that unit you just popped the Psytronome on and have wasted it.

I've also found that big units of Wraiths tend to be rather unwieldy, you just can't hit enough things to make them work. I'm not sure why you'd think Alaitoc isn't very good for them, it literally does the same thing it does for all other units, it keeps them alive for longer by nerfing your opponents shooting, this should be extremely obvious.

Bharring wrote:
Being Iyanden unlocks some good stuff. But the trait is a downgrade from Uthwe for basically anything but a Black Guardian horde style army (but not the one-Guardian-blob lists we see).

The Wraithlord is actually at a higher bracket for longer with Uthwe than Iyanden on average. And that's on top of actually living longer, too.

Even if you bump units up to 6 models, you're still at best at breakeven if you lose 4 in one turn. Going beyond 6, Iyanden can, in corner cases, have an advantage - but not much. The 6+ FnP is generally more useful even with squads at 6-10 members. Never useful for most CWE squads at 5 members, though.

That's why people are suggesting Uthwe (or Alaitoc, but as said, it's the "known OP" trait).

(I'd suggest going with Iyanden's trait. He wants to play Iyanden so play that way.)

The psytronome basically tips the scale for me, it can make a large unit of wraithblades, or a few Wls (even a WK) just eliminate any unit in the game in one round of combat. I agree overall that Ulthwe is probably better in the long run, and is much easier to paint, but Alaitoc is not great for most wraith lists since their weapons are very short ranged. It might help you turn 1 or 2, but then it's worthless.

kingheff wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
double shuricannons, catapults and sword is by far the most fun WL loadout IMO - because it actually gets to walk around and do stuff rather than being a glorified war walker.

This is the correct choice. There's a lot of people on here telling you to take heavy weapons, it's a bad idea because Wraithlords want to be mobile to eventually reach combat, going all Shuriken at least lets them make full use of their BS3+.

It depends on what you want the wraithlord to do, the shuriken/sword load out is good for moving forward and taking the fight to your opponent. Against slaanesh that's not a problem, they're going to be charging as soon as possible and so I'd go for two scatter lasers to thin out the chaff and try to put the wraithlord out in front to intercept their charge, hence the flamers. The fists are more than enough to deal with daemons so the sword seems a bit unnecessary. To save points it's reasonable to swap out the flamers for cats but I'd try to find them if possible.

Flamers are certainly a bit more enticing now they've come down in points but probably not by enough for me. The problem is units making a charge from more than 8" away renders them useless for overwatch. The Scatterlasers are nice and cheap, but they're heavy, going all Shuriken lets you move and shoot without penalty, or advance and still shoot. With only an 8" move, that can prove quite usefull. Personally I'd only take the sword if I had spare points, those fists are pretty good already.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Being Iyanden unlocks some good stuff. But the trait is a downgrade from Uthwe for basically anything but a Black Guardian horde style army (but not the one-Guardian-blob lists we see).

The Wraithlord is actually at a higher bracket for longer with Uthwe than Iyanden on average. And that's on top of actually living longer, too.

Even if you bump units up to 6 models, you're still at best at breakeven if you lose 4 in one turn. Going beyond 6, Iyanden can, in corner cases, have an advantage - but not much. The 6+ FnP is generally more useful even with squads at 6-10 members. Never useful for most CWE squads at 5 members, though.

That's why people are suggesting Uthwe (or Alaitoc, but as said, it's the "known OP" trait).

(I'd suggest going with Iyanden's trait. He wants to play Iyanden so play that way.)

The psytronome basically tips the scale for me, it can make a large unit of wraithblades, or a few Wls (even a WK) just eliminate any unit in the game in one round of combat. I agree overall that Ulthwe is probably better in the long run, and is much easier to paint, but Alaitoc is not great for most wraith lists since their weapons are very short ranged. It might help you turn 1 or 2, but then it's worthless.

It doesn't, 10 Wraithblades with swords and the Psytronome kill about 1 Talos or 3 Grotesques, but without Alaitoc or Ulthwe I'm not sure how you'd have a large unit left to get into combat with them. And in that situation they don't even get to fight first anyway as the Vexators Mask forces them to fight last.

 Imateria wrote:

kingheff wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
double shuricannons, catapults and sword is by far the most fun WL loadout IMO - because it actually gets to walk around and do stuff rather than being a glorified war walker.

This is the correct choice. There's a lot of people on here telling you to take heavy weapons, it's a bad idea because Wraithlords want to be mobile to eventually reach combat, going all Shuriken at least lets them make full use of their BS3+.

It depends on what you want the wraithlord to do, the shuriken/sword load out is good for moving forward and taking the fight to your opponent. Against slaanesh that's not a problem, they're going to be charging as soon as possible and so I'd go for two scatter lasers to thin out the chaff and try to put the wraithlord out in front to intercept their charge, hence the flamers. The fists are more than enough to deal with daemons so the sword seems a bit unnecessary. To save points it's reasonable to swap out the flamers for cats but I'd try to find them if possible.

Flamers are certainly a bit more enticing now they've come down in points but probably not by enough for me. The problem is units making a charge from more than 8" away renders them useless for overwatch. The Scatterlasers are nice and cheap, but they're heavy, going all Shuriken lets you move and shoot without penalty, or advance and still shoot. With only an 8" move, that can prove quite usefull. Personally I'd only take the sword if I had spare points, those fists are pretty good already.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Being Iyanden unlocks some good stuff. But the trait is a downgrade from Uthwe for basically anything but a Black Guardian horde style army (but not the one-Guardian-blob lists we see).

The Wraithlord is actually at a higher bracket for longer with Uthwe than Iyanden on average. And that's on top of actually living longer, too.

Even if you bump units up to 6 models, you're still at best at breakeven if you lose 4 in one turn. Going beyond 6, Iyanden can, in corner cases, have an advantage - but not much. The 6+ FnP is generally more useful even with squads at 6-10 members. Never useful for most CWE squads at 5 members, though.

That's why people are suggesting Uthwe (or Alaitoc, but as said, it's the "known OP" trait).

(I'd suggest going with Iyanden's trait. He wants to play Iyanden so play that way.)

The psytronome basically tips the scale for me, it can make a large unit of wraithblades, or a few Wls (even a WK) just eliminate any unit in the game in one round of combat. I agree overall that Ulthwe is probably better in the long run, and is much easier to paint, but Alaitoc is not great for most wraith lists since their weapons are very short ranged. It might help you turn 1 or 2, but then it's worthless.

It doesn't, 10 Wraithblades with swords and the Psytronome kill about 1 Talos or 3 Grotesques, but without Alaitoc or Ulthwe I'm not sure how you'd have a large unit left to get into combat with them. And in that situation they don't even get to fight first anyway as the Vexators Mask forces them to fight last.

Did you factor in Guided Wraithsight strat (another boon for Iyanden) and Empower psychic power being cast on the blades alongside the psytronome? If not, there's a reason you're not playing them right. And this is before you factor in the +1A strat from the Vigilus detachment. Each Blade will have 7 attacks, hitting on 3's rerolling, wounding on 2's at -3AP. Granted, if you're talking Talos or Grotesques we have to factor in the 4+ invuln, but more likely 5+ if you cast Jinx, which you should be if you're investing in this attack heavily.

 bullyboy wrote:
Alaitoc is not great for most wraith lists since their weapons are very short ranged. It might help you turn 1 or 2, but then it's worthless.

I disagree. Unless you opponent is densely castled up, there are likely to be plenty of shooty units outside 12" range, even if you Wraith units are within 12" of some enemy. Remember the Alaitoc trait doesn't switch off just because some enemy get within 12", the rest of the army is still affected.

 Imateria wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
double shuricannons, catapults and sword is by far the most fun WL loadout IMO - because it actually gets to walk around and do stuff rather than being a glorified war walker.

This is the correct choice. There's a lot of people on here telling you to take heavy weapons, it's a bad idea because Wraithlords want to be mobile to eventually reach combat, going all Shuriken at least lets them make full use of their BS3+.

One piece of advice to pass on to your friend, tell him that if he's building a Wraith army to never use the Iyanden Craftworld trait, it's functionally useless for them. Far better to go with Alaitec (competitive, but not really fun to play against) or Ulthwe (thematically fits the best).

Agreed on all points. Putting any heavy weapons on a wraith lord, while cool, basically makes them into a more expensive war walker (albeit one with higher wounds and toughness). You want all assault weapons and optionally a sword (I like the sword) because it lets you move towards or away from the enemy at speed. Personally, I find it a lot more viscerally satisfying to advance my wraith lord all over the place than to miss with an expensive 4+ to hit roll.

I personally like flamers over shuriken catapults because automatic hits are useful, averaging more hits feels good, and encouraging enemies to charge from more than 8" away makes them much more likely to fail the charge while I'm only giving up 4 strength 4 shots that would only hit on 6s anyway. And when you do kill a bunch of stuff in overwatch with flamers, it's glorious.

Alaitoc, Ulthwe, and arguably even Biel-Tan (if you ahve a bunch of shuriken shots) are all probably more competitive than the Iyanden rules BUT the Iyanden rules are at least somewhat useful for a wraith lord. The Iyanden trait bugs me because it doesn't do much for wraith guard and actively encourages large squads of warm bodies (something Iyanden is supposed to be lacking), but it's not a terrible choice for wraith lords specifically.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:

Did you factor in Guided Wraithsight strat (another boon for Iyanden) and Empower psychic power being cast on the blades alongside the psytronome? If not, there's a reason you're not playing them right. And this is before you factor in the +1A strat from the Vigilus detachment. Each Blade will have 7 attacks, hitting on 3's rerolling, wounding on 2's at -3AP. Granted, if you're talking Talos or Grotesques we have to factor in the 4+ invuln, but more likely 5+ if you cast Jinx, which you should be if you're investing in this attack heavily.

The Iyanden stuff can be combo'd together to decent effect. Personally, I feel like those combos require too much of a resource investment for my taste. It just feels kind of limited/inefficient. Like, sure, you can make a wraith blade death star that deep strikes in along with a character to provide it with various buffs, and it will do work against whatever it touches, but you'd better be hitting your opponent's key pieces to make it worthwhile. It's not a bad way to go, but it is very specific. Ulthwe and Alaitoc are probably more flexible and generally useful while requiring less effort on the player's part to milk the most out of them.

First WIP, long way to go.

Solid progress!

A little late on the advice, but I built my two one for each role. One stand back and shoot, the other charge and carve.

Magnetized the big guns, just glued the small ones on. Flamers for the charger, cats for the shooter.
Once the weather clears, Ms. blender will get primed and painted.

Commenters should remember that the OP hasn't chosen Iyanden, his buddy has. Iyanden isn't BAD by any means (as army-wide traits go).

Given the start of low points, skipping the shoulder weapons (for now) is also a viable option, though double shuriken cannon is cheap and makes for a very mobile Wraithlord while staying cheap.

Progress

Love yellow and blue on my wraith constructs

Good work bud looking fly!

Regarding the wraith-lords, sadly they are very underwhelming I think T8 just doesn't mean that much now days, especially with a 3+ save. 4 attacks even with the sword is also meh. If it had either battle focus , implacable and or fires of wrath(with flamers for example)...now that would be a whole other kettle of wraith! And i think would be more popular. At the moment 1 WL is not worth taking over 2 WW with shuriken cannons(60pts each!). The lack of invuln and 3+ holds it back IMO.
I wish I knew that before I invested resource into mine. But they are very very cool so the rule of cool overules all and I have one in my list anyway...

The wraith-seer on the other hand...Has faaaar more utility. Im getting me one of those as soon as I paint up my backlog.