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Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





New Zealand

Page 97 of the old Ork codex helpfully pointed out that runt/squig upgrades could be represented either on the upgraded model or by a suitable runt/squig model placed beside the upgraded model - any such extra model was otherwise ignored for game purposes. Fine.

But I can find no equivalent wording in the new codex. Have I missed it, or have the game's WYSIWYG rules changed? E.g. if my ork has an ammo runt upgrade, does that upgrade still need to be represented either on the ork model or by an extra runt model, or are we back to "Oh, by the way, that guy there has an ammo runt"?
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

WYSIWYG isn’t in the rules though it’s a strong gaming convention for 99% of players, albeit usually just for main wargear. Upgrades not so essential, so just declaring an Ammo Runt is usually fine, so long as your opponent knows.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest




WYSIWYG isn't in the rules but these days Ammo Runts, Grot Oilers and Bomb Squigs aren't wargear - they're models in their own right and have a statline as well as abilities that they confer. As such they should really be represented by models or things could get confusing your you and your opponent. Not representing them with a model would be very similar to telling your opponent "this unit of Ork Boyz that has 29 models on the board is actually a unit of 30 Boyz, it also has a Boss Nob with a Power Klaw in but you can't see it".

Targeting Squigs on Flash Gitz Kaptins and Grot Crew for vehicles are still wargear however.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 JohnnyHell wrote:
WYSIWYG isn’t in the rules though it’s a strong gaming convention for 99% of players, albeit usually just for main wargear. Upgrades not so essential, so just declaring an Ammo Runt is usually fine, so long as your opponent knows.


So you are okay not presenting models with stats not being represented? Just saying "this unit has it"? Okay so I declare my unit has lascannon marine but not bother put him on the board yet use him then.

It's got rules how it interacts. You can pick it for casualty. Why it would NOT be put on table?

I presume you would also not have models for tank busta bombs then either?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/15 10:08:39


“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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Made in gb
Waaagh! Ork Warboss






For models that have stat-lines such as ammo runts or bomb squigs, you absolutely must have the model there, they can be taken as casualties, count for range and LOS etc.

For things like a Warbosse's Attack Squigs, which is wargear, it's not technically required to represent them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/15 10:36:58


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Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

tneva82 wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
WYSIWYG isn’t in the rules though it’s a strong gaming convention for 99% of players, albeit usually just for main wargear. Upgrades not so essential, so just declaring an Ammo Runt is usually fine, so long as your opponent knows.


So you are okay not presenting models with stats not being represented? Just saying "this unit has it"? Okay so I declare my unit has lascannon marine but not bother put him on the board yet use him then.

It's got rules how it interacts. You can pick it for casualty. Why it would NOT be put on table?

I presume you would also not have models for tank busta bombs then either?


Ah my bad, simple error. No need to extrapolate it or be obtuse. If it has a stat line then yes, you need a model. The OP’s inference was things that don’t so if I made an error, my bad.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Have to put the model on the table with the unit.
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





New Zealand

Ah, so because e.g. an ammo runt has its own stat line, it can be targeted or assaulted (unlike in the old codex), and therefore it does need a separate model - yup, that makes sense for anything with a stat line.

However, e.g. a gitfinda squig doesn't have a stat line, and so doesn't have a separate model (although ideally should still be represented somehow, just like other wargear).

Thanks, all
   
 
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