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I collect SW's but they are in my top 5 favourite armies, but is anyone else feeling like their army is changing into something that no longer resembles SM's anymore. They new models look amazing and they offer great flexibility but they ain't SM's. I've kinda fallen out of love with SM's now, which is why I collect Custodes now more than SW's.

Comment further down the thread that further explains my reasons:

"I mean the whole aesthetic/nostalgia. They even got rid of Indomitus pattern as Clagar is sporting that fat bellied Gravis suit. Its exciting to get new models and units and they look awesome, but its far worse to lose models that you love and that got you into playing the game. They've pretty much gotten rid of jump packs which were one of my favourite looking units. Its a thing to do with taste, I'm not being ungrateful to GW, its just what they have created is not my taste. Can you honestly look at all those Primaris models and think, this is my army that I've grown to love throughout the decades? I mean its not much of an issue for me as Chaos is my main army and I've gone bonkers on how good all the new CSM releases have been, but I've gone off my Space Wolves, I don't have the desire to model/paint them."

Primaris are the reason when I came back to playing 40K after an 8 year break I started a Guard army instead of trying to update my Blood Angels / Codex Marines.

So, question. I see this reasoning a lot, that the new Primaris aren't space Marines.

What does that mean? What is a Space Marine and why do they not qualify?

I ask as an outsider to the whole Power Armor family. You're all the same to me, aside from some bling, or with additional pointy bits.

 Carnikang wrote:
So, question. I see this reasoning a lot, that the new Primaris aren't space Marines.

What does that mean? What is a Space Marine and why do they not qualify?

I ask as an outsider to the whole Power Armor family. You're all the same to me, aside from some bling, or with additional pointy bits.

Space marines held the the line against the Traitors, Xenos, and Heretics for 10,000 year.s Their reward was to be replaced with "space marines MKII", the Primaris. None of their equipment is compatible. You can't take any space marine transports with Primaris. The most iconic SM units, like Land Raiders, Terminators, and Assault Marines, are absolutely terrible in this game, while Primaris keep getting new models and buffs. It's very disheartening if you were a fan of marines.

 Carnikang wrote:
So, question. I see this reasoning a lot, that the new Primaris aren't space Marines.

What does that mean? What is a Space Marine and why do they not qualify?

I ask as an outsider to the whole Power Armor family. You're all the same to me, aside from some bling, or with additional pointy bits.

I mean the whole aesthetic/nostalgia. They even got rid of Indomitus pattern as Clagar is sporting that fat bellied Gravis suit. Its exciting to get new models and units and they look awesome, but its far worse to lose models that you love and that got you into playing the game. They've pretty much gotten rid of jump packs which were one of my favourite looking units. Its a thing to do with taste, I'm not being ungrateful to GW, its just what they have created is not my taste. Can you honestly look at all those Primaris models and think, this is my army that I've grown to love throughout the decades? I mean its not much of an issue for me as Chaos is my main army and I've gone bonkers on how good all the new CSM releases have been, but I've gone off my Space Wolves, I don't have the desire to model/paint them.

I'm kind of on the opposite side of this. I've never had a marine army before cause I don't like the models, but now with the Primaris I have a deathwatch army (no vets or other tiny marines).

I guess you win some you lose some. In either case, marines of both varieties have more stuff each than my main faction has total.

 Horst wrote:


Space marines held the the line against the Traitors, Xenos, and Heretics for 10,000 year.s Their reward was to be replaced with "space marines MKII", the Primaris. .

Which is exactly what the 'Emperor' did to the Thunder Warriors when he was done with them, too.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

 Horst wrote:


Space marines held the the line against the Traitors, Xenos, and Heretics for 10,000 year.s Their reward was to be replaced with "space marines MKII", the Primaris. .

Which is exactly what the 'Emperor' did to the Thunder Warriors when he was done with them, too.

What he did to the Thunder-warriors was appalling, one of his greatest crimes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Horst wrote:

 Carnikang wrote:
So, question. I see this reasoning a lot, that the new Primaris aren't space Marines.

What does that mean? What is a Space Marine and why do they not qualify?

I ask as an outsider to the whole Power Armor family. You're all the same to me, aside from some bling, or with additional pointy bits.

Space marines held the the line against the Traitors, Xenos, and Heretics for 10,000 year.s Their reward was to be replaced with "space marines MKII", the Primaris. None of their equipment is compatible. You can't take any space marine transports with Primaris. The most iconic SM units, like Land Raiders, Terminators, and Assault Marines, are absolutely terrible in this game, while Primaris keep getting new models and buffs. It's very disheartening if you were a fan of marines.

Especially with the new plastic tech, they look great but they don't have that old metal casted look. But that's a minor annoyance, its the whole style and feel now that is so different. I look at the new CSM models and then look at the Primaris and its like two different armies. Obviously they are different but SM's and CSM's have always been brothers against brothers, now they are strangers against strangers.

FWIW, I will never buy a Primaris model, but I wouldn't have bought anything from the 'old' SM range either, so it's a wash as far as I'm concerned.

<IMPERIUM> is a hard-limit for me.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

 Horst wrote:


Space marines held the the line against the Traitors, Xenos, and Heretics for 10,000 year.s Their reward was to be replaced with "space marines MKII", the Primaris. .

Which is exactly what the 'Emperor' did to the Thunder Warriors when he was done with them, too.

Nobody played an army of Thunder Warriors when that happened, and they werent GWs biggest selling miniature line, as they didn't exist. There's that one "Thunder Armor" model and that's it afaik.

I'm salty, because by the looks of it everything from Vigilus and Shadow Spear Cannot be used on standard marines. They are supposedly in the same codex, yet there is an arbitrary divide that is there ONLY to sell models. There are going to be no formations that buff standard marines while some formations give others some very significant bonuses.

Rhinos losing fire points for no reason, drop pods getting relegated to uselessness. Landraiders being made of slightly tougher paper mache. The list of grievances go on.

Instead of making marines have the Primaris statline they had to crowd the design space so that marines can't really exist as they should. I mean 1 attack? Poxwalkers get 2.

In terms of Game mechanics, I actually prefer the use of embedded special weapons in generalist squads, Primaris are the exact opposite of that concept and go with the specialist-only squads.

With the way GW has been treating mini-marines its very clear that they're going to get squat-ed eventually, and at that point its time for to me to leave.

Can you honestly look at all those Primaris models and think, this is my army that I've grown to love throughout the decades?


Yes. Yes i can, and most people do. New update to the existing, while the old models still have rules and can be used beside their new brothers. New armor and toys help the older guys, while keeping the entire range fresh, and it even fits into the fluff. Not everything lasts forever anyway, but the whole " not my space marines " is rubbish to most of the world. They wear cool armor, use new bolters, still love the emperor, and still kill xenos trash I think some people are just afraid of change. Embrace it

Here is a helpful tip to the Primaris haters, this is not supposed to be snarky, though it may come across as such. The Primaris are here to stay; it is your choice to how to deal with that fact. Whilst I think that overall the Primaris are a massive aesthetic elements, I too miss some aspects of the old range. The Primaris are too pristine and uniform for my liking. But I can either whine about it on the internet, or I can do something about it. And I chose the latter. I have had an absolute blast with personalising the Primaris models, kitbashing them with old parts, creating the perfect Space Marine look that I've always wanted. Currently I'm fitting studded shoulderpads and beaky helmets on the new Infiltrators, and I have to say it works really well.

 Crimson wrote:
Here is a helpful tip to the Primaris haters, this is not supposed to be snarky, though it may come across as such. The Primaris are here to stay; it is your choice to how to deal with that fact. Whilst I think that overall the Primaris are a massive aesthetic elements, I too miss some aspects of the old range. The Primaris are too pristine and uniform for my liking. But I can either whine about it on the internet, or I can do something about it. And I chose the latter. I have had an absolute blast with personalising the Primaris models, kitbashing them with old parts, creating the perfect Space Marine look that I've always wanted. Currently I'm fitting studded shoulderpads and beaky helmets on the new Infiltrators, and I have to say it works really well.

I don't hate them, they look amazing model wise, they just aren't my thing. I've painted up an army of Primaris, but that was amid the new groovy stage that was the release, but I've quickly fallen out of love with marines. In time I'll probably come back to them and maybe even like them more, but as of just now I'm taking a break from them. I mean aesthetic-wise they are a totally different army, its not surprising that, that new aesthetic isn't going to please everyone as aesthetics are subjective.

I love the primaries look. other than the start painting box that came with the 2 piece SM when I was a kid I never bought SM. Im buying them now though and as soon as i finish my current project in the next 2 months ill be kicking off my new SM army because they just look too good not to. The SM line needed an update and the only unfortunate part is them being "primaris" and not just the new SM models but i understand GW doing this as people would have wailed about their 20-year-old sculpts being obsolete

I don't think they really are aesthetically radically different than the old marines. The basic MKVII is also just a scifi power suit. The gothicness comes from extra details one can add.



I didn't go with 'knightly' with my Primaris, as I want them to be more 'feral' like the Space wolves, but a knightly look would be pretty easy to achieve too.

The number of folks who dont seem to know that primaris torsos and legs are nearly fully compatible with baby-marine weapon, pauldron, and head bits is endlessly amusing.

I don't know. While I still don't own any primaris for my own Space Wolves [though that'll change tomorrow, hopefully!], I do like them.

They absolutely seem to bear the same space marine aesthetic, and as for wolfiness and deficiency of helmetless heads, I'm going to solve that with a large number of stockpiled Grey Hunter leftovers and they should fit in perfectly.


That said, I've never actually liked the lines of Space Marine infantry, and I wouldn't call them "the models that got me into the game" [that title goes to a picture of a Baneblade in the 5e rulebook]. How would I feel if we had new guardsmen, or new guard tanks? I might be momentarily irritated if they didn't match my current guardsmen, or if they were as dead-on-arrival as Primaris [sans hellblasters] were, but I'd probably be buying them anyway.

And they're going to release new Sisters of Battle soon. I don't feel like they're replacing my old models, though they are doing so in a much more literal way than the Primaris are, and will almost certainly be buying and playing with them.

Sterling191 wrote:
The number of folks who dont seem to know that primaris torsos and legs are nearly fully compatible with baby-marine weapon, pauldron, and head bits is endlessly amusing.

I've converted enough to know.

Sorry, while I don't have plans to buy or use any primaris units other than a Redemptor dread atm, I also don't share your dislike of them either (except the ugly as gak jump pack ones).
I imagine that once the line gets more fleshed out that I'll eventually make an all primaris army - but that project is a few years away.

Nor do primaris units render my existing marine models useless, make me not want to play them, etc. My own SW continue to play just fine - though this editions f'd up deepstrike rules are a pain in the ass.

Delvarus, your Primaris look great and certainly aesthetically congruent with the old style. I really don't see what's the problem is.

 Crimson wrote:
Delvarus, your Primaris look great and certainly aesthetically congruent with the old style. I really don't see what's the problem is.

Cheers, when I get new models I'll oldify them, but there are so many units that you can't proxy and upgrades you can't give them and still its not the same army. I just wish they made true scale marines, there is no need for all this; new units great, but its completely taken over the old armies.

I prefer the new Primaris look. Bit I tend to like tacticool and clean looks more than elaborate ones.

The primaris knee pads disguist me more than nurgle. On a serious note though i think the reason I cant dig primaris marines is the size. They dont feel like proper miniatures. They feel like action figures to me. The size on the board looks off. It's not about how it compares to other minis, they in them selves look too big.

I mean i never where that impressed by the huge inquisitor minis either, even if they packed more detail than a 40k marine. 28mm or go home.

Gitdakka wrote:
The primaris knee pads disguist me more than nurgle. On a serious note though i think the reason I cant dig primaris marines is the size. They dont feel like proper miniatures. They feel like action figures to me. The size on the board looks off. It's not about how it compares to other minis, they in them selves look too big.

I mean i never where that impressed by the huge inquisitor minis either, even if they packed more detail than a 40k marine. 28mm or go home.

Yeah the size is brilliant, I'm not bashing that at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
People are getting too caught up in whether you like them or not. That's not the issue, I like them they look great but they aren't SM's. If you suggest you don't see them as another army all together you are just being dishonest.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
If you suggest you don't see them as another army all together you are just being dishonest.

They might be a different Army, but they are still Space Marines and a Space Marine Army, in the same way that 30k Marine Armies are still Marine Armies.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
If you suggest you don't see them as another army all together you are just being dishonest.

They might be a different Army, but they are still Space Marines and a Space Marine Army, in the same way that 30k Marine Armies are still Marine Armies.

I know but we didn't all start collecting 30k legions for them to be replaced decades later.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
If you suggest you don't see them as another army all together you are just being dishonest.

They might be a different Army, but they are still Space Marines and a Space Marine Army, in the same way that 30k Marine Armies are still Marine Armies.

I know but we didn't all start collecting 30k legions for them to be replaced decades later.

No we started collecting them for the game to be dying out in quite a few places with fewer and fewer releases in less than a decade.

Its a game, a unfortunate as it is to invest in minis and have them eventually replaced it happens. Particularly when the company is admitted as a Miniatures Company first and a Game Company second.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
If you suggest you don't see them as another army all together you are just being dishonest.

They might be a different Army, but they are still Space Marines and a Space Marine Army, in the same way that 30k Marine Armies are still Marine Armies.

I know but we didn't all start collecting 30k legions for them to be replaced decades later.

No we started collecting them for the game to be dying out in quite a few places with fewer and fewer releases in less than a decade.

Its a game, a unfortunate as it is to invest in minis and have them eventually replaced it happens. Particularly when the company is admitted as a Miniatures Company first and a Game Company second.

I understand that, but I don't have to like it. In any event I've vented my moaning so I'll leave it at that.

For me it's mostly a gameplay distinction. It's like if GW replaced Orks with an army that was essentially Necrons with an ork-themed skin. Primaris marines play like Necrons, Admech, or Tau more than they play like Marines or Guard.The only thing that after all these years got me to play some space marines was the appeal of "each of your guys can be a custom character with the wargear you want him to have and the little tweaks you put on each model are reflected on the tabletop."

Primaris don't play like that. They play like Necrons: you buy a unit for a specialized purpose and they're all uniformly armed.

It's just not what I signed up for when I bought the army. If they take craftworld eldar and replace them with a new Ynnari range, exchanging the Eldar "squads of basic-armed guardian units backed by specialist aspect warriors" playstyle with some new Ynnari suicide-cult ruleset...I will probably stop playing Eldar.