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Hi all.

Yesterday I had I match against a friend and because I had a pretty nasty turn where my DW reserve unit did a lot of pain whe had a couple of harder words because he was frustrated. In one of our discussion we came to something about charges. I have to say that I didn´t used what I am going to ask now but I talked with him about this and 40K in general.

Could someone please explain me how infantry works in movement and charges when it is about walls. Sorry for my English that I can not explain it better.

Moving for a charge works exactly the same as moving during the movement phase.

How this works with walls will depend on how you have defined the wall as a terrain feature.

If it is a ruin, Infantry can ignore it while moving. Ruins are assumed to have gaps everywhere infantry can fit through.

In most other circumstances, you would either have to measure a path around the wall or over the wall (measuring the distance up and down).

As this can make huge differences to charges and other movement, it's always worth explicitly defining what exactly different terrain features are at the start of the game.

Alex_85 wrote:
Hi all.

Yesterday I had I match against a friend and because I had a pretty nasty turn where my DW reserve unit did a lot of pain whe had a couple of harder words because he was frustrated. In one of our discussion we came to something about charges. I have to say that I didn´t used what I am going to ask now but I talked with him about this and 40K in general.

Could someone please explain me how infantry works in movement and charges when it is about walls. Sorry for my English that I can not explain it better.

It depends on how you define the terrain (preferably before the game begins). If you classify it as a "Ruin", you can walk though the walls without impediment. If you don't, then the usual rules for movement apply.

NIce, now I have it written and next time we play I will explain it to him. Thanks for the help. If there is no more optional info or rule then this post can be close.

Thanks

Alex_85 wrote:
NIce, now I have it written and next time we play I will explain it to him. Thanks for the help. If there is no more optional info or rule then this post can be close.

Thanks

Well, it's all down to how you define terrain at the start of the game. It's a really important step!

Note that although infantry can move through ruins with no issue, if it is a Wall (castle rampart, Border wall, Concrete divider) that's a different story.

In the case of Wall's, you are allowed per the rule to attack charge and attack anything within 1" of a wall from the other side of the wall. You don't get to use the Models within 1" of a model in Base to Base since no models are in Base to Base, but you do have a 1" on both sides of the wall area where combat is legal.

Note that you can make your infantry in a ruin charge proof from the outside if you place them 1,1" away from the ruin wall (if the charging models have 32mm bases). Infantry can move through ruin walls, but if your opponent cant place the models, because there is a wall in the way, the charge fails.

 p5freak wrote:
Note that you can make your infantry in a ruin charge proof from the outside if you place them 1,1" away from the ruin wall (if the charging models have 32mm bases). Infantry can move through ruin walls, but if your opponent cant place the models, because there is a wall in the way, the charge fails.

That is not 100% accurate.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Note that you can make your infantry in a ruin charge proof from the outside if you place them 1,1" away from the ruin wall (if the charging models have 32mm bases). Infantry can move through ruin walls, but if your opponent cant place the models, because there is a wall in the way, the charge fails.

That is not 100% accurate.

It is accurate. Please consider the context of the rules. (This is a joke).

The rules allow you to move though walls, but not place models within them. WMS also does not give you permission for this.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Note that you can make your infantry in a ruin charge proof from the outside if you place them 1,1" away from the ruin wall (if the charging models have 32mm bases). Infantry can move through ruin walls, but if your opponent cant place the models, because there is a wall in the way, the charge fails.

That is not 100% accurate.

It is accurate. Please consider the context of the rules. (This is a joke).

The rules allow you to move though walls, but not place models within them. WMS also does not give you permission for this.

He said "Note that you can make your infantry in a ruin charge proof from the outside if you place them 1,1" away from the ruin wall" which is not 100% accurate...

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Note that although infantry can move through ruins with no issue, if it is a Wall (castle rampart, Border wall, Concrete divider) that's a different story.

In the case of Wall's, you are allowed per the rule to attack charge and attack anything within 1" of a wall from the other side of the wall. You don't get to use the Models within 1" of a model in Base to Base since no models are in Base to Base, but you do have a 1" on both sides of the wall area where combat is legal.

There is no “base to base” rule, re-read your Rulebook/Primer. The restriction you mention doesn’t exist.

You mean there is no rule stating models from the same unit that are within 1" of a model in B2B may also fight?

 Eihnlazer wrote:
You mean there is no rule stating models from the same unit that are within 1" of a model in B2B may also fight?

You are correct.

The rule is that models from the same unit that are within 1" of a model within 1" of an enemy may also fight

 DeathReaper wrote:

He said "Note that you can make your infantry in a ruin charge proof from the outside if you place them 1,1" away from the ruin wall" which is not 100% accurate...

Ok, it is not 100% accurate, because the opponent can move around the ruin, and come in from the backside, which usually is open. But first the charge fails, because he didnt expect it. This gives you time to shoot the chargers, move your unit farther away from the chargers, on the first or second floor.

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

He said "Note that you can make your infantry in a ruin charge proof from the outside if you place them 1,1" away from the ruin wall" which is not 100% accurate...

Ok, it is not 100% accurate, because the opponent can move around the ruin, and come in from the backside, which usually is open. But first the charge fails, because he didnt expect it. This gives you time to shoot the chargers, move your unit farther away from the chargers, on the first or second floor.

This is the reason, in my opinion, that ruins should always have at least one open side. They shouldn't be impenetrable bunkers against melee heavy armies.

 Stux wrote:

This is the reason, in my opinion, that ruins should always have at least one open side. They shouldn't be impenetrable bunkers against melee heavy armies.

I think that this should be the very definition of ruins. If something has 4 walls, it's not a ruin, and should have separate rules.

Out of curiosity, if a ruin has a low wall (less than 1") or a window wide enough to stand in, and by standing on the top of the wall you were within 1" of the enemy, would Wobbly Model Syndrome kick in then? as the model cannot be placed without falling over etc.?

 some bloke wrote:

 Stux wrote:

This is the reason, in my opinion, that ruins should always have at least one open side. They shouldn't be impenetrable bunkers against melee heavy armies.

I think that this should be the very definition of ruins. If something has 4 walls, it's not a ruin, and should have separate rules.

Out of curiosity, if a ruin has a low wall (less than 1") or a window wide enough to stand in, and by standing on the top of the wall you were within 1" of the enemy, would Wobbly Model Syndrome kick in then? as the model cannot be placed without falling over etc.?

Potentially. It's a bit of a grey area and may well require a judge in a tournament setting.

My interpretation of WMS is that it should be used when you CAN place a model without falling, but it MIGHT fall. So you remove it to protect the model. If it's impossible to leave the model unattended for even a moment then that is not somewhere you can place using WMS. But mileage will vary on this, a lot of people read different things into the rule as it is somewhat vague.

Yes. And from my experience, most players also take WMS as allowing the model to stand halfway through the wall in the above situation as well, regardless of the actual wording of the rule, as not allowing an assault because the enemy is standing too close to an obstacle that can be freely moved through is absurd.

I'm with Stux. WMS is about placing a model somewhere it reasonably should fit and stay, but just won't in a stable manner.

Like a top heavy model on the slope of those Realm of Battle tables. It should stay there, but he darn thing either falls over or slides down the slow at the slightest bump.

You just set him with his base propped against the wall at a angle. Them WMS it. There is no rule against this. Just like there is no rule saying I can't lay a model on it's side.

It's just one of those things where I try to explain to some people that Warhammer is designed as a "friendly game" hence why so many rules issues crop up that really boil down to "just work it out with your opponent."
Which usually boils down to I can do janky stuff too or we can just have a fun game.

Wagguy80 wrote:
You just set him with his base propped against the wall at a angle. Them WMS it. There is no rule against this. Just like there is no rule saying I can't lay a model on it's side.

It's just one of those things where I try to explain to some people that Warhammer is designed as a "friendly game" hence why so many rules issues crop up that really boil down to "just work it out with your opponent."
Which usually boils down to I can do janky stuff too or we can just have a fun game.

Indeed. There has to be a level of common sense and compromise.

Wagguy80 wrote:
You just set him with his base propped against the wall at a angle. Them WMS it. There is no rule against this. Just like there is no rule saying I can't lay a model on it's side.

The rules also don't say I can't place my models back on the board after you've killed them and use them next turn, but that doesn't mean it is allowed.

The rules system is permissive, so you may only do things you are expressly allowed to do or that the rules imply you can do, and nothing else.