Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was debating between the two and was hoping to get some input from other people on what people think is better to use.

If you are going AM, then my advice is neither. That's like asking about a Taurox vs. a Chimera. The answer is you are wasting points.

Eh, the Valkyrie has a place if you're using the Tempestus Drop Force from Vigilus. It's expensive, but capable of wiping out a LOT of units. For 313 pts and 1 CP, you get a Tempestor, Command Squad, Troops Squad, and Valk, and when they land you wipe out any heavy infantry unit you look at.

Valkyrie: alpha strike delivery system with a few guns, has a strong formation if you're doing it, just costs a bit much for its firepower.

Vendetta: has some inefficient lascannons that get even more inefficient if you try to use its transport capacity.

Make the obvious choice.

Would it be worth considering the Vulture? Or is that too overpriced?

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Would it be worth considering the Vulture? Or is that too overpriced?

The Vulture, when loaded with 2x Punisher Gattling Cannons, is amazing. 160 points, for 40 shots in a durable package? Yes, please. It only hits on 4's, but against Orks or Guard you're still cutting down swathes of infantry with it.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If you are going AM, then my advice is neither. That's like asking about a Taurox vs. a Chimera. The answer is you are wasting points.

Depending on the type of game you’re playing, that’s a pretty big exaggeration. Chimeras are not bad , for one, even if they’re not the most optimal choice. And maybe the OP just likes the Valkyrie model.

 Horst wrote:
The Vulture, when loaded with 2x Punisher Gattling Cannons, is amazing. 160 points, for 40 shots in a durable package? Yes, please. It only hits on 4's, but against Orks or Guard you're still cutting down swathes of infantry with it.

The problem with this idea is that a 170 point tank commander has the same guns, except at BS 3+ re-rolling 1s, durability that doesn't depend on giving up shooting accuracy, and a regimental trait bonus. And, assuming you're playing with reasonable terrain rules, the tank commander's much smaller and less visible model is a lot more likely to avoid incoming fire entirely.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Horst wrote:
The Vulture, when loaded with 2x Punisher Gattling Cannons, is amazing. 160 points, for 40 shots in a durable package? Yes, please. It only hits on 4's, but against Orks or Guard you're still cutting down swathes of infantry with it.

The problem with this idea is that a 170 point tank commander has the same guns, except at BS 3+ re-rolling 1s, durability that doesn't depend on giving up shooting accuracy, and a regimental trait bonus. And, assuming you're playing with reasonable terrain rules, the tank commander's much smaller and less visible model is a lot more likely to avoid incoming fire entirely.

But the Vulture is harder to hit and can't be attacked in the fight phase except by other fliers.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Horst wrote:
The Vulture, when loaded with 2x Punisher Gattling Cannons, is amazing. 160 points, for 40 shots in a durable package? Yes, please. It only hits on 4's, but against Orks or Guard you're still cutting down swathes of infantry with it.

The problem with this idea is that a 170 point tank commander has the same guns, except at BS 3+ re-rolling 1s, durability that doesn't depend on giving up shooting accuracy, and a regimental trait bonus. And, assuming you're playing with reasonable terrain rules, the tank commander's much smaller and less visible model is a lot more likely to avoid incoming fire entirely.

The Tank Commander only has a 29" threat range though if you want to double tap it, while the Vulture can hit damn near anything on the table. They've both got advantages and disadvantages, makes it kind of hard to choose.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
But the Vulture is harder to hit and can't be attacked in the fight phase except by other fliers.

It's only harder to hit if you give up 25% of your firepower to move, and being immune to charges is limited in value when you're already putting up a wall of meatshield guardsmen to hide behind. And remember, the tank commander is T8 instead of T7 which is often equivalent to a -1 to hit


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Horst wrote:
The Tank Commander only has a 29" threat range though if you want to double tap it, while the Vulture can hit damn near anything on the table. They've both got advantages and disadvantages, makes it kind of hard to choose.

29" is a lot of threat range, especially when most other armies are going to want to get close asap.

How are you giving up 25% of the firepower?

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
How are you giving up 25% of the firepower?

Because you have -1 to hit with heavy weapons if you move and you can only remove the mandatory minimum movement distance if you also remove the "hard to hit" rule.

The Vulture gets +1 to shooting against non-flyers, so that -1 from moving is negated.

Ordinarily transports arent optimal in 8E but Valkyries have a lot of utility and cant be compared to Chimeras.

Valkyries allow a turn 1 charge, units can move after exiting from the transport. After dropping its payload, the Valkyrie has decent firepower to clear chaff or can hover and assault units to prevent them from shooting next turn. If you position right to assault in your previous phase, they can hover and fire at BS3.

Vendettas suck. With their long range firepower they have no need to get up close with their enemies, but as a transport they will be moving close, and firing at BS5 just sucks. That and they cost a lot.

Vultures are a good alternative to Tank Commanders, guaranteeing they will be in range of their intended target. Works well supporting Valkyries with an Officer of the Fleet for the reroll 1s.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
How are you giving up 25% of the firepower?

Tank Commander BS3 67% vs Vulture BS4 50%.

50%/67%= 75% therefore losing 25%

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
The Vulture gets +1 to shooting against non-flyers, so that -1 from moving is negated.

Yes, and that's why I said you lose 25% of your firepower. A Vulture that hovers in place to maximize firepower hits on a 3+ (assuming a ground target), a Vulture that moves to get the "hard to hit" rule hits on a 4+. That's 25% of your firepower lost.

That's still 40 shots. If you miss all of those then you're probably hopeless.

Tank commander 27 shots hitting vs 20 hitting from Vulture

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
That's still 40 shots. If you miss all of those then you're probably hopeless.

I'm not sure what your point is here. The goal is to get lots of hits and kill stuff, not to get at least one shot out of 40 to hit. The Vulture has less firepower than the tank commander, period.

I suppose that is an accurate analysis of the capabilities of the Vulture vs. Tank Commanders. To that end I thank everyone for their input. That said, I will probably still go with the Vulture simply because I don't feel like Leman Russes would be a good fit for my more infantry-centered army.