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Fight Phase Step 3: Choose Targets

My unit of 20 Boyz charges two units in the Charge Phase: a Riptide and two measly Fire Warriors. I get enough distance, combined with consolidate, to completely surround the Fire Warriors.

Now I choose ONLY the Riptide as my target unit, per Step 3. A number of my Boyz will be unable to target the Riptide, but they will not attack the Fire Warriors since I didn't select them as a target.

Legal?

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Fight Phase Step 3: Choose Targets

My unit of 20 Boyz charges two units in the Charge Phase: a Riptide and two measly Fire Warriors. I get enough distance, combined with consolidate, to completely surround the Fire Warriors.

Now I choose ONLY the Riptide as my target unit, per Step 3. A number of my Boyz will be unable to target the Riptide, but they will not attack the Fire Warriors since I didn't select them as a target.

Legal?

Not legal, due to the Designers Commentary.

Q: If any of your units are eligible to fight in the Fight phase, can you choose for them not to fight this turn? Also, if any of your units charged in the Charge phase, do they have to fight first in the Fight phase, or can you choose for them to wait until later in the phase?

A: All eligible units must fight in the Fight phase; they cannot ‘pass’ and wait for another phase. Additionally, a unit must fight when it is its time to do so; it cannot ‘hold’ in order to fight later in the phase. So if a unit charged in the preceding Charge phase, it must fight before any non-charging models in the Fight phase (barring any related abilities).

Note that when a model fights, it must do all of its close combat attacks if it can do so – you cannot choose for it not to do so (though you can still choose which weapon it uses for each close combat attack).

Since a "unit must fight when it is its time to do so", that means the models in that unit must pick a target if able to do so.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Fight Phase Step 3: Choose Targets

My unit of 20 Boyz charges two units in the Charge Phase: a Riptide and two measly Fire Warriors. I get enough distance, combined with consolidate, to completely surround the Fire Warriors.

Now I choose ONLY the Riptide as my target unit, per Step 3. A number of my Boyz will be unable to target the Riptide, but they will not attack the Fire Warriors since I didn't select them as a target.

Legal?

Not legal, due to the Designers Commentary.

Q: If any of your units are eligible to fight in the Fight phase, can you choose for them not to fight this turn? Also, if any of your units charged in the Charge phase, do they have to fight first in the Fight phase, or can you choose for them to wait until later in the phase?

A: All eligible units must fight in the Fight phase; they cannot ‘pass’ and wait for another phase. Additionally, a unit must fight when it is its time to do so; it cannot ‘hold’ in order to fight later in the phase. So if a unit charged in the preceding Charge phase, it must fight before any non-charging models in the Fight phase (barring any related abilities).

Note that when a model fights, it must do all of its close combat attacks if it can do so – you cannot choose for it not to do so (though you can still choose which weapon it uses for each close combat attack).

Since a "unit must fight when it is its time to do so", that means the models in that unit must pick a target if able to do s.

I remain unconvinced. The unit is fighting, since I selected it in Step 1 of the Fight Phase, thereby fulfilling the requirement mentioned in the rules you quoted. In Step 3 I select a target enemy. Some of my models are not in range of the target enemy, and therefore cannot attack, which still abides by the DC.
Note that the DC talks about UNITS in the Q/A, not MODELS. Then in the italics, it says that a model must use all its attacks "IF IT CAN DO SO." Since the model is far away from the target, it cannot do so.

Where do the rules force me to select every target my unit is engaged with?

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

I remain unconvinced. The unit is fighting, since I selected it in Step 1 of the Fight Phase. In Step 3 I select a target enemy. Some of my models are not in range of the target enemy, and therefore cannot attack.

Where do the rules force me to select every target my unit is engaged with?

Furthermore, Step 3 doesn't let you pick anything as a target, "First, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. To target an enemy unit, the attacking model must either be within 1" of that unit, or within 1" of another model from its own unit that is itself within 1" of that enemy unit". Because the Boyz are not within range of the Riptide, they cannot select it as a target. The only option for them to select as a target is the Fire Warriors. Only Boyz not within range of either target will, naturally, be unable to fight.

The additional restriction of "Models that charged this turn can only target enemy units that they charged in the previous phase." isn't replacing the previous restriction, it's adding onto it.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Fight Phase Step 3: Choose Targets

My unit of 20 Boyz charges two units in the Charge Phase: a Riptide and two measly Fire Warriors. I get enough distance, combined with consolidate, to completely surround the Fire Warriors.

Now I choose ONLY the Riptide as my target unit, per Step 3. A number of my Boyz will be unable to target the Riptide, but they will not attack the Fire Warriors since I didn't select them as a target.

Legal?

Not legal, due to the Designers Commentary.

Q: If any of your units are eligible to fight in the Fight phase, can you choose for them not to fight this turn? Also, if any of your units charged in the Charge phase, do they have to fight first in the Fight phase, or can you choose for them to wait until later in the phase?

A: All eligible units must fight in the Fight phase; they cannot ‘pass’ and wait for another phase. Additionally, a unit must fight when it is its time to do so; it cannot ‘hold’ in order to fight later in the phase. So if a unit charged in the preceding Charge phase, it must fight before any non-charging models in the Fight phase (barring any related abilities).

Note that when a model fights, it must do all of its close combat attacks if it can do so – you cannot choose for it not to do so (though you can still choose which weapon it uses for each close combat attack).

Since a "unit must fight when it is its time to do so", that means the models in that unit must pick a target if able to do so.

This is the correct application. Anything else is attempting to bend the rules in favor of remaining in combat to not get shot at and murdered by the superior tau.
Edit: where do the rules state you select targets? You already selecting to charge. Charging is fighting.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

I remain unconvinced. The unit is fighting, since I selected it in Step 1 of the Fight Phase. In Step 3 I select a target enemy. Some of my models are not in range of the target enemy, and therefore cannot attack.

Where do the rules force me to select every target my unit is engaged with?

Furthermore, Step 3 doesn't let you pick anything as a target, "First, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the attacks. To target an enemy unit, the attacking model must either be within 1" of that unit, or within 1" of another model from its own unit that is itself within 1" of that enemy unit". Because the Boyz are not within range of the Riptide, they cannot select it as a target. The only option for them to select as a target is the Fire Warriors. Only Boyz not within range of either target will, naturally, be unable to fight.

The additional restriction of "Models that charged this turn can only target enemy units that they charged in the previous phase." isn't replacing the previous restriction, it's adding onto it.

I don't think everything in there is quite right, but I think the solution to the problem, as you did state, is that, just like the shooting phase, each MODEL selects its own targets, rather than each unit. A bit of edition lag, perhaps.

3. Choose Targets
First, you must pick the target unit, or units, for the
attacks. To target an enemy unit, the attacking model
must either be within 1" of that unit, or within 1" of
another model from its own unit that is itself within 1"
of that enemy unit.

The attacking model must be within 1"or ect ect.

So each model picks a target and per the last line in the designer commentary (each model must attack if able) you have to select a legal target for that model if you can.

You would have to fight. However, all units are assumed to be able to attack with basic 'close combat weapons' so you could do that instead of using choppas or whatever to minimise damage.

Btw, most of the time you could achieve the same result by wrapping around the fire warriors, but staying more than 1" away from them (as long as one of the boyz reached the Riptide).
Then during the fight phase, you attack the riptide with the eligible boyz, and consolidate everyone. The boyz close to the FW will then be able to consolidate within 1" of the FW.

fresus wrote:
Btw, most of the time you could achieve the same result by wrapping around the fire warriors, but staying more than 1" away from them (as long as one of the boyz reached the Riptide).
Then during the fight phase, you attack the riptide with the eligible boyz, and consolidate everyone. The boyz close to the FW will then be able to consolidate within 1" of the FW.

This, only I'd stick 3 boyz into the tau just to reduce their numbers a bit. Even firewarriors can kill orks if they roll 5's.

The other option would be to only declare against the riptide but surround the firewarriors. Then have only 1 model engage the riptide that way anything surrounding the firewarriors can't attack them.

 Nithaniel wrote:
The other option would be to only declare against the riptide but surround the firewarriors. Then have only 1 model engage the riptide that way anything surrounding the firewarriors can't attack them.

Do this, I often play Berzerkers so need to tie up lots of shooty people, but I don't want to soak up overwatch (which I do with Rhino's etc if I can). I'll charge only one unit, and pile in against another one. The one i've piled into I cannot fight immediately, so ties it up in combat.

TarkinLarson wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:
The other option would be to only declare against the riptide but surround the firewarriors. Then have only 1 model engage the riptide that way anything surrounding the firewarriors can't attack them.

Do this, I often play Berzerkers so need to tie up lots of shooty people, but I don't want to soak up overwatch (which I do with Rhino's etc if I can). I'll charge only one unit, and pile in against another one. The one i've piled into I cannot fight immediately, so ties it up in combat.

The unit you piled into absolutely can fight you, it's just you who can't fight them.

But since it's Fire Warriors this may just be a moot point

 Cheexsta wrote:

TarkinLarson wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:
The other option would be to only declare against the riptide but surround the firewarriors. Then have only 1 model engage the riptide that way anything surrounding the firewarriors can't attack them.

Do this, I often play Berzerkers so need to tie up lots of shooty people, but I don't want to soak up overwatch (which I do with Rhino's etc if I can). I'll charge only one unit, and pile in against another one. The one i've piled into I cannot fight immediately, so ties it up in combat.

The unit you piled into absolutely can fight you, it's just you who can't fight them.

But since it's Fire Warriors this may just be a moot point

That's what he just said