Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys,

I'm just getting back into the game after a long hiatus, so when doing my reading up on all the rule changes and unit changes I learned that Havocs have access to a new fun weapon, the Reaper Chaincannon, which when mixed with Slaanesh's "Endless Cacophony" can result in 64 shots from a single unit. Sounds fun.

Main idea is just to have Havocs with various weapons for various targets, HQ who can grant them rerolls and protect them, and some meatshields in the form of normal Chaos Space Marines. While it's mostly for fun, I would like to know if it would be functional and if there are any holes in the damage coverage. Tried getting anti-mobs with the Reaper Chaincannon and Heavy Bolters, general damage from Autocannons, and anti-tanks/monsters with some Lascannons, but I could have overlooked something.

Thanks in advance!


Spearhead Detachment
Legion: Iron Warriors
1000 Points

HQ

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 86pts]:
Cold and Bitter
Fleshmetal Exoskeleton
2x Lightning Claw
Mark of Slaanesh
Warlord

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 86pts]:
Intoxicating Elixir
2x Lightning Claw
Mark of Slaanesh


Troops

Chaos Space Marines [8 PL, 104pts]:
Mark of Slaanesh
7x Marine w/ Boltgun
Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Chainsword


Heavy Support

Havocs [7 PL, 158pts]:
Mark of Slaanesh
Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-flamer
4x Havoc w/ reaper chaincannon

Havocs [7 PL, 158pts]:
Mark of Slaanesh
Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-flamer
4x Havoc w/ reaper chaincannon

Havocs [7 PL, 176pts]:
Mark of Slaanesh
Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Flamer
4x Havoc w/ lascannon

Havocs [7 PL, 116pts]:
Mark of Slaanesh
Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Flamer
4x Havoc w/ autocannon

Havocs [7 PL, 116pts]:
Mark of Slaanesh
Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Flamer
4x Havoc w/ heavy bolter

Total: [53 PL, 2CP, 1000pts]

A lot of people will not likely play against this due to the rule of three.

Overall a nice IW list, but the stratagems you want to use would cost cp that you don't have.

Not Online!!! wrote:
A lot of people will not likely play against this due to the rule of three.

Overall a nice IW list, but the stratagems you want to use would cost cp that you don't have.

I would have 2 CP I think, which is enough for the stratagem. Since I haven't really been able to play in close to a decade I am relearning a lot and Command Points are one of those things that feels very different to how things were, so I need to read up more on them (if you have any suggestions for reading material on them in particular I would most appreciate it). Just using the stratagem once though would feel like enough since it can be a devastating volley of fire from a group with Reaper Chaincannons.

64 heavy bolter equivalent shots is strong for clearing mobs/low Toughness units I'd think, especially in a 1000 point game. 64 shots, reroll 1's due to Lord, about 49-50 hit, and even if only half of those wound it's ~25 wounds. My math might be a bit rough due to just getting back into the swing of things, but one use of the stratagem feels like it ought to be enough for a low point game. (This entire list only has 38 wounds itself in total after all)

As for the new Rule of Three, I haven't really met anyone that particularly likes it and I'm not really aiming to play in official tournament so I don't think it'd come up in the sort of casual play I'll be doing when I have my army/armies finished. Sorry for not mentioning that before, and thank you for bringing these things up since they are things to think over.

 Thunderscourge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
A lot of people will not likely play against this due to the rule of three.

Overall a nice IW list, but the stratagems you want to use would cost cp that you don't have.

I would have 2 CP I think, which is enough for the stratagem. Since I haven't really been able to play in close to a decade I am relearning a lot and Command Points are one of those things that feels very different to how things were, so I need to read up more on them (if you have any suggestions for reading material on them in particular I would most appreciate it). Just using the stratagem once though would feel like enough since it can be a devastating volley of fire from a group with Reaper Chaincannons.

64 heavy bolter equivalent shots is strong for clearing mobs/low Toughness units I'd think, especially in a 1000 point game. 64 shots, reroll 1's due to Lord, about 49-50 hit, and even if only half of those wound it's ~25 wounds. My math might be a bit rough due to just getting back into the swing of things, but one use of the stratagem feels like it ought to be enough for a low point game. (This entire list only has 38 wounds itself in total after all)

As for the new Rule of Three, I haven't really met anyone that particularly likes it and I'm not really aiming to play in official tournament so I don't think it'd come up in the sort of casual play I'll be doing when I have my army/armies finished. Sorry for not mentioning that before, and thank you for bringing these things up since they are things to think over.

You want to have more CP due to the fact that you might also need to use VotLW in the same turn.

The problem with the rule of three is, that it is a bandaid to limit people from spamming certain units, hits however units that would be perfectly fine whilest not actually hitting the offenders hard enough. Frankly it is better then nothing, which is why people prefer to use it overall but that's that.


Cp Management atm is key for Chaos, mostly uses in cacophony and VotLW, if I were you, i would maybee consider either filling out a battalion with cultists which can profit from your warlord trait, which would give you another 4 cp to play with.

Case in point you got 4 cp actually due to beeing battleforged.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Thunderscourge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
A lot of people will not likely play against this due to the rule of three.

Overall a nice IW list, but the stratagems you want to use would cost cp that you don't have.

I would have 2 CP I think, which is enough for the stratagem. Since I haven't really been able to play in close to a decade I am relearning a lot and Command Points are one of those things that feels very different to how things were, so I need to read up more on them (if you have any suggestions for reading material on them in particular I would most appreciate it). Just using the stratagem once though would feel like enough since it can be a devastating volley of fire from a group with Reaper Chaincannons.

64 heavy bolter equivalent shots is strong for clearing mobs/low Toughness units I'd think, especially in a 1000 point game. 64 shots, reroll 1's due to Lord, about 49-50 hit, and even if only half of those wound it's ~25 wounds. My math might be a bit rough due to just getting back into the swing of things, but one use of the stratagem feels like it ought to be enough for a low point game. (This entire list only has 38 wounds itself in total after all)

As for the new Rule of Three, I haven't really met anyone that particularly likes it and I'm not really aiming to play in official tournament so I don't think it'd come up in the sort of casual play I'll be doing when I have my army/armies finished. Sorry for not mentioning that before, and thank you for bringing these things up since they are things to think over.

You want to have more CP due to the fact that you might also need to use VotLW in the same turn.

The problem with the rule of three is, that it is a bandaid to limit people from spamming certain units, hits however units that would be perfectly fine whilest not actually hitting the offenders hard enough. Frankly it is better then nothing, which is why people prefer to use it overall but that's that.


Cp Management atm is key for Chaos, mostly uses in cacophony and VotLW, if I were you, i would maybee consider either filling out a battalion with cultists which can profit from your warlord trait, which would give you another 4 cp to play with.

Case in point you got 4 cp actually due to beeing battleforged.

Yeah, the reason upon reading up on new rules that I don't like the rule of three (even with it being a "suggestion" rather than outright rule) was that it failed to actually do its purpose/job. Why is it that I can't say have 5 Havoc teams, but Imperial Guard players can have near unlimited tanks with how you can take 3 to a group and there are a million variations on them that count as different datasheets? Different Chaos armies can have a slew of Daemon Princes since you can get multiples of the normal one, ones from the Thousand Suns, and more from Death Guard? It cuts down on spam, sure, but it does so in such an easy to break way, since any variation will mess with it.

Some people I've seen complain that it punishes fluff armies, while others claim that it only punishes cheese and rewards fluff...but I feel it does a bit of both. You can't field like a Space Marine 10th company any more comprised only of Scouts, which could be a fluffy army, but also removes some pure exploitative lists...I just feel that it could have been handled far better if they cared to. After all I haven't heard anyone complaining that anyone ever took too many Havocs, so it's not like I'm trying to break the game or exploit something...I just happen to like them. Sucks that other armies/units breaking the game results in a semi-official rule being made that negatively impacts this idea/list.


Back to the issue of CP, I wonder if by moving points around I could use CSM instead of Cultists. No crunch reason, just personally don't like Cultists. Sure they might be more efficient to just gain CP, but I've just never really cared for them. For a Battalion I'd have to have 3 troops and 2 HQ, so even if I moved a Chaos Lord over and freed up some points it'd be kind of rough. Cheap Chaos Lord would be like 74 points, and a vanilla squad of CSM would be 65. That totals to about 269 points if I buy nothing extra for them, and while the Chaos Lord would be useful to provide more shooting buffs overall I do question what use the vanilla CSM squads would have in such a quantity.

Do you think I would be able to get use out of those vanilla units? I mean, bolters aren't too bad to have, but they feel lackluster compared to the firepower Havocs wield.

Looking again, VotLW does seem worth getting some Command Points for. I don't remember from when I looked over the new rules, can you re-use stratagems? If so then having a lot more of them would certainly be nice.

Yeah, the reason upon reading up on new rules that I don't like the rule of three (even with it being a "suggestion" rather than outright rule) was that it failed to actually do its purpose/job. Why is it that I can't say have 5 Havoc teams, but Imperial Guard players can have near unlimited tanks with how you can take 3 to a group and there are a million variations on them that count as different datasheets? Different Chaos armies can have a slew of Daemon Princes since you can get multiples of the normal one, ones from the Thousand Suns, and more from Death Guard? It cuts down on spam, sure, but it does so in such an easy to break way, since any variation will mess with it.

No guard tanks still are 1-3 per slot, btw you as an iron warrior, might take a liking to R&H as a soup ally, (since they also can bring imperial artillery) , yep for the DG, TS and normal DP, work excactly like that.

Some people I've seen complain that it punishes fluff armies, while others claim that it only punishes cheese and rewards fluff...but I feel it does a bit of both. You can't field like a Space Marine 10th company any more comprised only of Scouts, which could be a fluffy army, but also removes some pure exploitative lists...I just feel that it could have been handled far better if they cared to. After all I haven't heard anyone complaining that anyone ever took too many Havocs, so it's not like I'm trying to break the game or exploit something...I just happen to like them. Sucks that other armies/units breaking the game results in a semi-official rule being made that negatively impacts this idea/list.

Actually you can field a scout company, scouts are like any troop choice and dedicated transport excluded from the rule of three.
Havocs might become a issue though due to the recent buff in vigilus ablaze, might, if people manage to scrounge up enough reaper cannons, since the set only has 1.... yes gw at it's peak.

Back to the issue of CP, I wonder if by moving points around I could use CSM instead of Cultists. No crunch reason, just personally don't like Cultists. Sure they might be more efficient to just gain CP, but I've just never really cared for them. For a Battalion I'd have to have 3 troops and 2 HQ, so even if I moved a Chaos Lord over and freed up some points it'd be kind of rough. Cheap Chaos Lord would be like 74 points, and a vanilla squad of CSM would be 65. That totals to about 269 points if I buy nothing extra for them, and while the Chaos Lord would be useful to provide more shooting buffs overall I do question what use the vanilla CSM squads would have in such a quantity.

Do you think I would be able to get use out of those vanilla units? I mean, bolters aren't too bad to have, but they feel lackluster compared to the firepower Havocs wield.

Looking again, VotLW does seem worth getting some Command Points for. I don't remember from when I looked over the new rules, can you re-use stratagems? If so then having a lot more of them would certainly be nice.

You can consider Vigilus ablaze and making your marines into red corsairs. Why? because Red corsairs generate alot of CP if they field CSM, yes they reward fielding CSM, also regular CSM got with the bolter beta rule quite a handy 24" range of a decent weapon.
The reason why i said pick Cultists has more to do with your trait, since you have chosen "Cold and Bitter" which profits bigger squads way more, also your havocs probably don't even need to take a morale check due to the new mechanic.
I personally would as i said, put this down as an ally for 8CP:

Warpsmith 55pts

DA 100pts

5CSM: AC 75pts

5CSM: AC 75 pts

5CSM: AC 75 pts:


Total: 380 pts.

With your 3 from battleforged and 1 from the HS detachament you would have then 12 CP.

As for Stratagems, generally all stratagems are limited normally to once a turn. except pre battle ones, these are infinite or restricted by themselves, like tide of traitors.


Edit: Have you considered the Tactics thread ? else just pm i will try my best, also you make the call for the better more specific rules questions is a great choice.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Yeah, the reason upon reading up on new rules that I don't like the rule of three (even with it being a "suggestion" rather than outright rule) was that it failed to actually do its purpose/job. Why is it that I can't say have 5 Havoc teams, but Imperial Guard players can have near unlimited tanks with how you can take 3 to a group and there are a million variations on them that count as different datasheets? Different Chaos armies can have a slew of Daemon Princes since you can get multiples of the normal one, ones from the Thousand Suns, and more from Death Guard? It cuts down on spam, sure, but it does so in such an easy to break way, since any variation will mess with it.

No guard tanks still are 1-3 per slot, btw you as an iron warrior, might take a liking to R&H as a soup ally, (since they also can bring imperial artillery) , yep for the DG, TS and normal DP, work excactly like that.

Some people I've seen complain that it punishes fluff armies, while others claim that it only punishes cheese and rewards fluff...but I feel it does a bit of both. You can't field like a Space Marine 10th company any more comprised only of Scouts, which could be a fluffy army, but also removes some pure exploitative lists...I just feel that it could have been handled far better if they cared to. After all I haven't heard anyone complaining that anyone ever took too many Havocs, so it's not like I'm trying to break the game or exploit something...I just happen to like them. Sucks that other armies/units breaking the game results in a semi-official rule being made that negatively impacts this idea/list.

Actually you can field a scout company, scouts are like any troop choice and dedicated transport excluded from the rule of three.
Havocs might become a issue though due to the recent buff in vigilus ablaze, might, if people manage to scrounge up enough reaper cannons, since the set only has 1.... yes gw at it's peak.

Back to the issue of CP, I wonder if by moving points around I could use CSM instead of Cultists. No crunch reason, just personally don't like Cultists. Sure they might be more efficient to just gain CP, but I've just never really cared for them. For a Battalion I'd have to have 3 troops and 2 HQ, so even if I moved a Chaos Lord over and freed up some points it'd be kind of rough. Cheap Chaos Lord would be like 74 points, and a vanilla squad of CSM would be 65. That totals to about 269 points if I buy nothing extra for them, and while the Chaos Lord would be useful to provide more shooting buffs overall I do question what use the vanilla CSM squads would have in such a quantity.

Do you think I would be able to get use out of those vanilla units? I mean, bolters aren't too bad to have, but they feel lackluster compared to the firepower Havocs wield.

Looking again, VotLW does seem worth getting some Command Points for. I don't remember from when I looked over the new rules, can you re-use stratagems? If so then having a lot more of them would certainly be nice.

You can consider Vigilus ablaze and making your marines into red corsairs. Why? because Red corsairs generate alot of CP if they field CSM, yes they reward fielding CSM, also regular CSM got with the bolter beta rule quite a handy 24" range of a decent weapon.
The reason why i said pick Cultists has more to do with your trait, since you have chosen "Cold and Bitter" which profits bigger squads way more, also your havocs probably don't even need to take a morale check due to the new mechanic.
I personally would as i said, put this down as an ally for 8CP:

Warpsmith 55pts

DA 100pts

5CSM: AC 75pts

5CSM: AC 75 pts

5CSM: AC 75 pts:


Total: 380 pts.

With your 3 from battleforged and 1 from the HS detachament you would have then 12 CP.

As for Stratagems, generally all stratagems are limited normally to once a turn. except pre battle ones, these are infinite or restricted by themselves, like tide of traitors.


Edit: Have you considered the Tactics thread ? else just pm i will try my best, also you make the call for the better more specific rules questions is a great choice.

Been having trouble figuring out how to quote your post bit by bit like you did, so sorry for the wait on responding.

What you've said had me look into Renegades and Heretics and I now am happy there is a 'legal' way to do what I was hoping to do with an eventual Iron Warriors list: attack of the Basilisks.

Will 'iron' out the details over the coming days, but I have a tentative list for 1000 and 2000 points now with Renegades included. Basilisks are one of my favorite units in all of Warhammer due to my love of artillery (resulting partly in my liking the Iron Warriors), so being able to use them will be fun.

Can serve as a 'fix' to this list too in case someone wants to do Rule of Three: I can substitute Basilisks for some of the Havocs since I actually do like Basilisks unlike Cultists. On 2000 I even worked out a way to also get 13 Command Points thanks to your idea about the Corsairs detachment. That they will be colored like Iron Warriors will just be a coincidence all due to an Alpha Legion plot, since that solves everything.

Thanks for the help and suggestions. Still working on it all, but with this information handy I'm really reworking things and improving them. When I played Advance Wars as a kid I relied heavily on rockets and long range units so the enemy could never reach me, and I guess I've never really changed!

Actually for the renegades marines, just say they are newbies, IW can and do produce new marines, these are of course still worse then the veterans, make them grey maybee to show that they are not iron yet?

As someone that avidly still plays them as main army you might should look at the renegades tactica altough word of warning, r&H atm are bad.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Actually for the renegades marines, just say they are newbies, IW can and do produce new marines, these are of course still worse then the veterans, make them grey maybee to show that they are not iron yet?

As someone that avidly still plays them as main army you might should look at the renegades tactica altough word of warning, r&H atm are bad.

Oh I'm well aware the IW make new marines, it's both how Honsou came to be and also why he possesses a degree of infamy. Good idea to have them be 'new'.

R&H being bad was basically the first thing I learned of them, no worries. Commanders having random Leadership values? Troops basically being about the same cost as Imperial Guard without having all of its benefits? Doesn't sound wonderful, but fortunately what I seek from it is one of the things basically the same as their IG brethren: the artillery. Unlike other comparable units, the artillery have the same stats and are basically just copy/pasted so my Basilisks can do a lot of damage still.

3+ Basiliks and a 25 point commander isn't a bad addition to any Iron Warriors army. Sure the commander might end up sucking, but there are single weapons that cost their value so it's not a really big point sink/loss.

Maybe one day I'll get around to a bigger R&H army, but until then I am fine just having a single commander and an army of Basilisks supplementing my Havocs and other Iron Warriors units. Contemplating taking a Warpsmith instead of one Chaos Lord just to heal any Basilisks that may need the help. How useful are Warsmiths atm?

Just realized the Warpsmith would be unable to heal the Basilisks. Unfortunate, but with 3-9 Basilisks some should be able to get their fire off anyways before being taken out.

My one fear with this gunline army is that deep-strike/infiltration/etc forces can wreck it or at least tangle it up. Going to have to look into rules concerning charges and whatnot to see how I can go about positioning them to reduce the chances of that. If anyone has any suggestions I am all ears, since I think I should be set at range...just need to learn to mitigate up-close combat and reduce the chances it will reach me.

 Thunderscourge wrote:
Just realized the Warpsmith would be unable to heal the Basilisks. Unfortunate, but with 3-9 Basilisks some should be able to get their fire off anyways before being taken out.

My one fear with this gunline army is that deep-strike/infiltration/etc forces can wreck it or at least tangle it up. Going to have to look into rules concerning charges and whatnot to see how I can go about positioning them to reduce the chances of that. If anyone has any suggestions I am all ears, since I think I should be set at range...just need to learn to mitigate up-close combat and reduce the chances it will reach me.

What you need is a screen, a sacrifice unit to stop charges, cultists? Maybee a 50 man blob with enforcer form the r&H part?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Thunderscourge wrote:
Just realized the Warpsmith would be unable to heal the Basilisks. Unfortunate, but with 3-9 Basilisks some should be able to get their fire off anyways before being taken out.

My one fear with this gunline army is that deep-strike/infiltration/etc forces can wreck it or at least tangle it up. Going to have to look into rules concerning charges and whatnot to see how I can go about positioning them to reduce the chances of that. If anyone has any suggestions I am all ears, since I think I should be set at range...just need to learn to mitigate up-close combat and reduce the chances it will reach me.

What you need is a screen, a sacrifice unit to stop charges, cultists? Maybee a 50 man blob with enforcer form the r&H part?

Would the Chaos Space Marines I have for the Command Points be able to fulfill this role?

 Thunderscourge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Thunderscourge wrote:
Just realized the Warpsmith would be unable to heal the Basilisks. Unfortunate, but with 3-9 Basilisks some should be able to get their fire off anyways before being taken out.

My one fear with this gunline army is that deep-strike/infiltration/etc forces can wreck it or at least tangle it up. Going to have to look into rules concerning charges and whatnot to see how I can go about positioning them to reduce the chances of that. If anyone has any suggestions I am all ears, since I think I should be set at range...just need to learn to mitigate up-close combat and reduce the chances it will reach me.

What you need is a screen, a sacrifice unit to stop charges, cultists? Maybee a 50 man blob with enforcer form the r&H part?

Would the Chaos Space Marines I have for the Command Points be able to fulfill this role?

Too few, you need to board controll to deny the charges?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Thunderscourge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Thunderscourge wrote:
Just realized the Warpsmith would be unable to heal the Basilisks. Unfortunate, but with 3-9 Basilisks some should be able to get their fire off anyways before being taken out.

My one fear with this gunline army is that deep-strike/infiltration/etc forces can wreck it or at least tangle it up. Going to have to look into rules concerning charges and whatnot to see how I can go about positioning them to reduce the chances of that. If anyone has any suggestions I am all ears, since I think I should be set at range...just need to learn to mitigate up-close combat and reduce the chances it will reach me.

What you need is a screen, a sacrifice unit to stop charges, cultists? Maybee a 50 man blob with enforcer form the r&H part?

Would the Chaos Space Marines I have for the Command Points be able to fulfill this role?

Too few, you need to board controll to deny the charges?

I looked into it more, and by sacrificing an initial Command Point I can label a detachment a Devastation Battery, which then can have the special ability to use a command point on the first turn if I don't go first to fire after the enemy's move phase. Would that be able to mitigate possible charges since I would be able to fire before the enemy even gets their own firing phase? It does only work on one unit however, but it's like a "super" overwatch of sorts.

2 CP in total to fire say 32 shots from the Reaper Chaincannon at a force that's too close could be quite nice.

I doubt that is enough to stop a Bloodletter bomb, point is, it depdends on what level you want to play:

Is your FLG the laid back beer and pretzels club, no worries that might be enough to save your guns.

IF your group or normal players are not then i doubt you are going to get as lucky.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I doubt that is enough to stop a Bloodletter bomb, point is, it depdends on what level you want to play:

Is your FLG the laid back beer and pretzels club, no worries that might be enough to save your guns.

IF your group or normal players are not then i doubt you are going to get as lucky.

Due to just getting back into things I lack the raw number knowledge to know what general melee armies are looking like these days and their threat level which follows. It's hard to counter a vague concept of "will kill you in melee" without actually knowing what is common, meta, or what kind of rolls I'll be going against. Are there any good sources to use regarding that, so I know how much to invest to counter enemy melee?

 Thunderscourge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I doubt that is enough to stop a Bloodletter bomb, point is, it depdends on what level you want to play:

Is your FLG the laid back beer and pretzels club, no worries that might be enough to save your guns.

IF your group or normal players are not then i doubt you are going to get as lucky.

Due to just getting back into things I lack the raw number knowledge to know what general melee armies are looking like these days and their threat level which follows. It's hard to counter a vague concept of "will kill you in melee" without actually knowing what is common, meta, or what kind of rolls I'll be going against. Are there any good sources to use regarding that, so I know how much to invest to counter enemy melee?

Basically atm shooting > melee, except if the melee armies have deepstrike / Tellyporta or any other way to go into melee turn one.

I would take a look at the Daemon tactica, and the ork one these are the most used melee armies.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Thunderscourge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I doubt that is enough to stop a Bloodletter bomb, point is, it depdends on what level you want to play:

Is your FLG the laid back beer and pretzels club, no worries that might be enough to save your guns.

IF your group or normal players are not then i doubt you are going to get as lucky.

Due to just getting back into things I lack the raw number knowledge to know what general melee armies are looking like these days and their threat level which follows. It's hard to counter a vague concept of "will kill you in melee" without actually knowing what is common, meta, or what kind of rolls I'll be going against. Are there any good sources to use regarding that, so I know how much to invest to counter enemy melee?

Basically atm shooting > melee, except if the melee armies have deepstrike / Tellyporta or any other way to go into melee turn one.

I would take a look at the Daemon tactica, and the ork one these are the most used melee armies.

It's been awhile of course, but the last time I played there was a lot of Ork, Imperial Guard, and Dark Eldar players so I'll probably begin with reading up on them.

In the meantime, what would you suggest for someone looking to invest in a Renegades army? What units can have their pieces used for Renegades pretty well, but are also economical? I have found some individual pieces I would like to use, but before I buy anything I want to plan out my purchases.

 Thunderscourge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Thunderscourge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I doubt that is enough to stop a Bloodletter bomb, point is, it depdends on what level you want to play:

Is your FLG the laid back beer and pretzels club, no worries that might be enough to save your guns.

IF your group or normal players are not then i doubt you are going to get as lucky.

Due to just getting back into things I lack the raw number knowledge to know what general melee armies are looking like these days and their threat level which follows. It's hard to counter a vague concept of "will kill you in melee" without actually knowing what is common, meta, or what kind of rolls I'll be going against. Are there any good sources to use regarding that, so I know how much to invest to counter enemy melee?

Basically atm shooting > melee, except if the melee armies have deepstrike / Tellyporta or any other way to go into melee turn one.

I would take a look at the Daemon tactica, and the ork one these are the most used melee armies.

It's been awhile of course, but the last time I played there was a lot of Ork, Imperial Guard, and Dark Eldar players so I'll probably begin with reading up on them.

In the meantime, what would you suggest for someone looking to invest in a Renegades army? What units can have their pieces used for Renegades pretty well, but are also economical? I have found some individual pieces I would like to use, but before I buy anything I want to plan out my purchases.

I can recommend you a look at my blog, there are two main r&h parts to my army:

One is made from the anvil regiments range and some Chaos bitz,
The other is a kitbash missmash out of cultists, neophytes IG, chaos bitz, fw renegades.
The later is fairly easily do able, the neophytes f.e. Come with a lot of kit that is used for elite r&h infantry ( shotguns f.e.) IG neophytes squad come also with a Hwt, the Starter box for IG is also a good jumping off point.
Cultist mixed in aswell, skittari heads are also a nice way.

Frankly i also swithched stuff with a lot of my local group in order to get specific bitz.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Thunderscourge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Thunderscourge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I doubt that is enough to stop a Bloodletter bomb, point is, it depdends on what level you want to play:

Is your FLG the laid back beer and pretzels club, no worries that might be enough to save your guns.

IF your group or normal players are not then i doubt you are going to get as lucky.

Due to just getting back into things I lack the raw number knowledge to know what general melee armies are looking like these days and their threat level which follows. It's hard to counter a vague concept of "will kill you in melee" without actually knowing what is common, meta, or what kind of rolls I'll be going against. Are there any good sources to use regarding that, so I know how much to invest to counter enemy melee?

Basically atm shooting > melee, except if the melee armies have deepstrike / Tellyporta or any other way to go into melee turn one.

I would take a look at the Daemon tactica, and the ork one these are the most used melee armies.

It's been awhile of course, but the last time I played there was a lot of Ork, Imperial Guard, and Dark Eldar players so I'll probably begin with reading up on them.

In the meantime, what would you suggest for someone looking to invest in a Renegades army? What units can have their pieces used for Renegades pretty well, but are also economical? I have found some individual pieces I would like to use, but before I buy anything I want to plan out my purchases.

I can recommend you a look at my blog, there are two main r&h parts to my army:

One is made from the anvil regiments range and some Chaos bitz,
The other is a kitbash missmash out of cultists, neophytes IG, chaos bitz, fw renegades.
The later is fairly easily do able, the neophytes f.e. Come with a lot of kit that is used for elite r&h infantry ( shotguns f.e.) IG neophytes squad come also with a Hwt, the Starter box for IG is also a good jumping off point.
Cultist mixed in aswell, skittari heads are also a nice way.

Frankly i also swithched stuff with a lot of my local group in order to get specific bitz.

I have actually been slowly catching up on your thread, just been busy and working through it one post at a time. Hoping to finish it over the next couple of days.

Thanks for the bitz advice, I will look into all those you mentioned. I also am looking to use this head piece as much as I can from Age of Sigmar since it's my favorite kind of helmet.

I used old Chaos warrior bits, but i did toy around with AoS khorne units for bits and weapons.

Even some topless arty loaders carrying ammo

Mix your weapons friend. this ain't 7th edition anymore; you can split fire your shots out... theres no need to make it easy for your opponent to take toys from your toolbox

GamerGuy

Not Online!!! wrote:I used old Chaos warrior bits, but i did toy around with AoS khorne units for bits and weapons.

Even some topless arty loaders carrying ammo

Do you have any painting tips or guides to point to? This week I've been looking into that side of things now that I'm beginning to get the parts and pieces for my army, but I'm kind of lost since it's been nearly a decade since I've seriously played and painted (sparse games with friend's models notwithstanding).

GamerGuy wrote:Mix your weapons friend. this ain't 7th edition anymore; you can split fire your shots out... theres no need to make it easy for your opponent to take toys from your toolbox

GamerGuy

Is it worth mixing squad loadouts thus spreading out targets given the fact that said squads will have various ranges that mean you will have to position differently to make it so everyone can actually shoot? Reaper Chaincannons have half the range of Autocannons after all, so having a squad which mixes them feels like it could lead to issues.

I'm super rusty and don't have experience with this edition, so I am genuinely curious how it all will play out. Positioning is key in Warhammer after all so it's something I'm worried about. They may be able to fire at various targets, but that doesn't change the fact that they will have to be positioned in a way that allows for everyone to fire as needed.

 Thunderscourge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:I used old Chaos warrior bits, but i did toy around with AoS khorne units for bits and weapons.

Even some topless arty loaders carrying ammo

Do you have any painting tips or guides to point to? This week I've been looking into that side of things now that I'm beginning to get the parts and pieces for my army, but I'm kind of lost since it's been nearly a decade since I've seriously played and painted (sparse games with friend's models notwithstanding).

GamerGuy wrote:Mix your weapons friend. this ain't 7th edition anymore; you can split fire your shots out... theres no need to make it easy for your opponent to take toys from your toolbox

GamerGuy

Is it worth mixing squad loadouts thus spreading out targets given the fact that said squads will have various ranges that mean you will have to position differently to make it so everyone can actually shoot? Reaper Chaincannons have half the range of Autocannons after all, so having a squad which mixes them feels like it could lead to issues.

I'm super rusty and don't have experience with this edition, so I am genuinely curious how it all will play out. Positioning is key in Warhammer after all so it's something I'm worried about. They may be able to fire at various targets, but that doesn't change the fact that they will have to be positioned in a way that allows for everyone to fire as needed.

Generally for mixing, take weapons with the same range or close to same range: AC and Lascannons f.e.

As for painting, ehm, i guess that is something you should ask other people not my strongpoint really, but generally i paint in steps, from the bigger areas to the smaller ones. Also thinning your paint but i belive that you should know.
Also the subforum for painting can give you some pointers, maybee ask around there.