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With a second set of Primaris troops out in the wild now, I've been thinking about the line as a whole. What I've noticed is that some of the new marine sculpts since the introduction of the primaris line just don't seem to fit the others.
Captains and Librarians
Intercessors
Eliminators
Infiltrators

All of these models look great, well sculpted and balanced. Interesting designs, but fit together like pieces of a puzzle.

And then, there are
Repulsors
Inceptors
Aggressors
Suppressors

Each one so vastly different, oddly shaped, bulky and bland in presentation. When I look at the latter three, I often think to myself, "are these Infinity models?" They just do not look like a 40K model to me. Heck, consider the Suppressors, one of them has the smoke launcher from a Rhino glued onto the bottom of his cannon, for no reason that I can tell, other than to have a useless bit there.

It started me thinking, perhaps there are several different sculptors or artists working on this line and that could account for the wide difference? Or, is it that the design team just doesn't know where to go with this line? The more I've started to think about this, the more I start to question it. And you know what, I'm beginning to think that Primaris are a hold over from the last CEOs time in office, as if to say they were going one direction, had the molds ready, and then bam, new CEO, new direction. But they couldn't just piss money away, so they released them anyways. Maybe?

I mean compare all of these models to the new CSM models, which are LIGHTYEARS better in design, and in aesthetic. Every piece, from the Lord of Discord, to the Obliterators and the new deamon engines fit with the existing range. They blend seamlessly. It's hard to believe that both lines are from the same company.

There are several people working on them, but they're all following Jes Goodwin's direction for Primaris (IIRC from the podcast).

Also remember that Primaris are in different types of armour - normal Marines & Terminators look different to each other as well.

(And I'm leaving that smoke launcher off!)

I honestly don't know what they were thinking when they designed Primaris. They don't fit 40k.

The proportions are better for sure, but the aesthetic is bland, boring and stripped down. I absolutely hate it.

Where's the skulls, the bling, the brutal weapons like chainswords?

They had a good thing going with Marines back about 15 years ago when they went full Knights in Space. Now they just look like wanna be Marines.

If I wanted high tech, streamlined, sci-fi garbage I would go play another game.

Keep 40K medieval.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I honestly don't know what they were thinking when they designed Primaris. They don't fit 40k.

The proportions are better for sure, but the aesthetic is bland, boring and stripped down. I absolutely hate it.

Where's the skulls, the bling, the brutal weapons like chainswords?

They had a good thing going with Marines back about 15 years ago when they went full Knights in Space. Now they just look like wanna be Marines.

If I wanted high tech, streamlined, sci-fi garbage I would go play another game.

Keep 40K medieval.

This is sort of what I mean about the CSM stuff. They did upsize the CSM marines, why couldn't they have done the same for Loyalists and called it a day?

Like I said, I love Intercessors and Eliminators. Both look excellent. But, Suppressors just really rub me the wrong way.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I honestly don't know what they were thinking when they designed Primaris. They don't fit 40k.

The proportions are better for sure, but the aesthetic is bland, boring and stripped down. I absolutely hate it.

Where's the skulls, the bling, the brutal weapons like chainswords?

They had a good thing going with Marines back about 15 years ago when they went full Knights in Space. Now they just look like wanna be Marines.

If I wanted high tech, streamlined, sci-fi garbage I would go play another game.

Keep 40K medieval.

You see, for every person who thinks like this there's another who thinks the opposite. I'm Rogue Trader/2nd Edition Vintage. The 'Monks in Space' thing is weird to me. 2000AD post apocalyptic 'colonial marines' is how I see Space Marines. No skulls. No candles. Genetically modified Butchers in powered armour is how I'd like them represented and Primaris fit that.

I like the idea of the Imperium being a weird Gothic throwback but within that the Marines are are another throwback to a more technocratic, less dogmatic period. A period when the Emperor wanted to drive human expansion forward at the barrel of a gun. And the shoulders on which he rested that responsibility were those of super-specialised super soldiers. Soldiers that he raised out of the ashes of tribal conflict and soldiers that he engineered to be above religious dogma.

The cold efficiency of the Primaris sum this up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
However.... I do agree that some of the sculpts are awful...

I think the recent Victrix Honour Guard are a good in between for the old and new style. Still sleek and new, but with just enough widgets so that it doesn’t clutter.

As banville said, the “old way” you talk of is the new way to those of us who like 1st and 2nd edition era marines. The primaris much more fit that aesthetic. I personally disliked all the widgets and doodads. But it’s personal preference.

Banville wrote:

Spoiler:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I honestly don't know what they were thinking when they designed Primaris. They don't fit 40k.

The proportions are better for sure, but the aesthetic is bland, boring and stripped down. I absolutely hate it.

Where's the skulls, the bling, the brutal weapons like chainswords?

They had a good thing going with Marines back about 15 years ago when they went full Knights in Space. Now they just look like wanna be Marines.

If I wanted high tech, streamlined, sci-fi garbage I would go play another game.

Keep 40K medieval.

You see, for every person who thinks like this there's another who thinks the opposite. I'm Rogue Trader/2nd Edition Vintage. The 'Monks in Space' thing is weird to me. 2000AD post apocalyptic 'colonial marines' is how I see Space Marines. No skulls. No candles. Genetically modified Butchers in powered armour is how I'd like them represented and Primaris fit that.

I like the idea of the Imperium being a weird Gothic throwback but within that the Marines are are another throwback to a more technocratic, less dogmatic period. A period when the Emperor wanted to drive human expansion forward at the barrel of a gun. And the shoulders on which he rested that responsibility were those of super-specialised super soldiers. Soldiers that he raised out of the ashes of tribal conflict and soldiers that he engineered to be above religious dogma.

The cold efficiency of the Primaris sum this up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
However.... I do agree that some of the sculpts are awful...

Andykp wrote:As banville said, the “old way” you talk of is the new way to those of us who like 1st and 2nd edition era marines. The primaris much more fit that aesthetic. I personally disliked all the widgets and doodads. But it’s personal preference.

I really like the clean non cluttered and functional look of the Primaris range. in the voxcast with Jes, he said that the armour takes a little from here, little from there and sprinkles in RT stuff. I'm ok with a couple of skulls here & there, but some stuff is a bit toooooooo much(cough, termi chaplain cough).

The infantry (power-armour characters, Intercessors, Hellblasters, Reivers...) just look like truescale Marines to me. They may not be as ornate as some of the original range but the newer Mk.VIII stuff (newest Devastator kit, Deathwatch Veterans) is about halfway between classic Mk.VII and Primaris infantry in size.

Aggressors I'm on the fence with; I'd be happier with them if they'd done melee arm/gun arm like Terminators rather than making a whole unit with Calgar's weapon loadout.

Suppressors/Inceptors I dislike intensely. The new flying bases produce really quite ludicrous poses, and I find the guns too big and too chunky.

beast_gts wrote:
There are several people working on them, but they're all following Jes Goodwin's direction for Primaris (IIRC from the podcast).

Also remember that Primaris are in different types of armour - normal Marines & Terminators look different to each other as well.

(And I'm leaving that smoke launcher off!)

You'll have to do some surgury, that smoke launcher is molded into the gun-shield.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I honestly don't know what they were thinking when they designed Primaris. They don't fit 40k.

Yup, Mk IV armour, one of the oldest 40K designs next to beakies, doesn't fit 40K.

Oh wait

I take you also hate Mk VIII? Because it's nearly identical to X, save for helmet and a few cues from IV. So, yeah, if you ignore like 80% of 40K history and SM designs, then squint strongly enough upside down, they sorta-kinda don't fit. But then literally everything doesn't fit, Chaos and Eldar included, and with much less effort too...

Where's the skulls, the bling, the brutal weapons like chainswords?

You know it's not 2016 anymore, right? You might want to take look at multiple primaris upgrade sprues, or their rules. To, you know, actually have any idea about the thing you're trying to bash.

Yes, dumb rule team insistence on denying primaris access to melee is dumb, but they are getting there and hopefully Codex 2.0 fixes that.

They had a good thing going with Marines back about 15 years ago when they went full Knights in Space. Now they just look like wanna be Marines.

Way to flanderize and dumb down whole range in a single sentence. Medieval? Wot? The strenght of the SM line was their ability to match any culture you wanted. Samurai SM? No problem. Mongols? Sure. Romans? Of course! Maori/hussar/soviet SM? The range was made to do it all, and primaris explicitly were designed to allow that too. You know the wannabe 'knight' SM in pajamas named after emo poet are just a tiny fraction of the range, yes?

I take you also hate Mk VIII? Because it's nearly identical to X, save for helmet and a few cues from IV

Yes, I do hate it. The basic marine squad was always bad looking to me. The only point where they got interesting was when Black Templars, Grey Knights, Blood Angels and Dark Angels got super blinged out.

The techno-barbarian thing belongs in 30K

You know it's not 2016 anymore, right? You might want to take look at multiple primaris upgrade sprues, or their rules.

Please show me all the awesome bling and chainswords on all those upgrade sprue's where I can make an assault unit.

If' theres 1 square cm of clean armour, its not enough bling

Way to flanderize and dumb down whole range in a single sentence. Medieval? Wot?

Since when is using the word "Medieval" flanderizing anything. It's one of the most interesting periods in human history with amazing stories, art and architecture.

The range was made to do it all, and primaris explicitly were designed to allow that too. You know the wannabe 'knight' SM in pajamas named after emo poet are just a tiny fraction of the range, yes?

You can't do anything with the range because they're all mono-pose and too large to use old Space Marine kits on them, they also can't take any of the iconic vehicles SM can take. Who the feth would want to buy a repulsor?

To, you know, actually have any idea about the thing you're trying to bash.

I'll bash anything I want to, so here it is. I fething hate your primaris bs. I think the fluff sucks, I think the models suck, I think the rules suck.

This Thread:

"I haven't learned to convert and kitbash"

Literally the only Primaris things that don't work with the original kits: Arms, legs, torsos.

Everything else is 100% compatible. I put a heavy bolter on an Intercessor just to see if it would work. It did.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I'll bash anything I want to, so here it is. I fething hate your primaris bs. I think the fluff sucks, I think the models suck, I think the rules suck.

Oh, that smoke launcher thing you were whining about? It's an actual smoke launcher, it has game rules. Read about.

The more I see people acting like this over Primaris Marines, the more I hope for the old Space Marines to be discontinued.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:


Yes, I do hate it. The basic marine squad was always bad looking to me. The only point where they got interesting was when Black Templars, Grey Knights, Blood Angels and Dark Angels got super blinged out.

The techno-barbarian thing belongs in 30K

That's just like, your opinion man.

I've been playing since early 3rd edition. Not the longest playing by any means, but I've been around a bit, I still have the first tactical marines (And, god help me, the land speeder) I put together from the 3rd edition starter set of D-eldar and Marines.

I, personally, dislike bling.

I've always preferred stream-lined, militarized, and 'neat'. The odd doo-dad here and there is fine, especially for characters, but the only thing I've enjoyed about all of the Nu-marines kits over the years has been the weapon options; it's been nice not having to buy single plasma-gun dudes in a clampack for 10$ a man.

So I obviously like Primaris. I'm not a huge fan of the invalidation of all old marines, and I think the lore is silly (but then most of 40k is silly...), but I'm hugely fond of the models themselves.

Rule 1 is be polite, please follow it and stop the tit for tat insults. Discuss peoples posts and not the poster.
Thanks,
ingtaer.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
You can't do anything with the range because they're all mono-pose and too large to use old Space Marine kits on them,

This is only true of those unskilled in the modeling aspect of the hobby.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
This Thread:

"I haven't learned to convert and kitbash"

Literally the only Primaris things that don't work with the original kits: Arms, legs, torsos.

...so, the vast majority of the model?

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
If' theres 1 square cm of clean armour, its not enough bling

* putting up a paper clip costume *
So, I see you are looking for Sisters of Battle ?


I'm kidding, but Sisters are even more than pre-primaris marines into bling. It's a big part of their “catholics in space” identity.

The Newman wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
(And I'm leaving that smoke launcher off!)

You'll have to do some surgury, that smoke launcher is molded into the gun-shield.

Nope, separate part - top-left:

 Blndmage wrote:
...so, the vast majority of the model?

Excuse me, I meant to say "Legs and torso". Don't know why I said "Arms"

Anyone who thinks you can't do any kitbashing or converting with Primaris Marines has only played with Dark Imperium boxes.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
If' theres 1 square cm of clean armour, its not enough bling

* putting up a paper clip costume *
So, I see you are looking for Sisters of Battle ?


I'm kidding, but Sisters are even more than pre-primaris marines into bling. It's a big part of their “catholics in space” identity.

You know, that not just catholics spam decoration in churches, a lot of lutherians do aswell. Just a heads up.
The ones that were iconoclastic were in Switzerland, Calvin and Zwingli which are another two seperate branches.

Yea I don't understand how they can biff it so hard with the Primaris model line, whilst simultaneously doing such a fantastic job with the recent GSC and CSM releases either...

Id like to think it was unclear direction and/ or inexperienced staff but sometimes you just make a mess of a project which defies clearing up!

All these different Primaris mark 10 variants make sense to me. You've got the stripped-down Phobos-pattern armour for infiltrating units, the heavier armour providing additional proection and increased carrying capacity.

The two jump units have different roles - the Inceptors are dropping from orbit and fighting close-up with the enemy, so have additional shielding and increased thrusters to deal with re-entry. The lighter units are only making shorter "tactical" jumps so their armour has fewer modifications and doesn't have the additional head protection and re-entry thrusters.

They've all got a common core to them, so they all look like variants of the same basic thing to me - they're all Space Marines.

The lack of bling is deliberate. Jes pointed out that the level of detailing that had appeared on later versions of basic troopers meant that the characters needed to get more and more ornate, which can be problematic. Strip the basics right back and there's room to slowly increase the ornamentation as you go up the ranks. There's also no reason to assume we won't see Chapter-Specific Primaris units appear in the fullness of time. Even so, these models (right down to the three Easy to build Primaris models) still have skull badges, icons and relics on them, so they're definitely 40k models, IMO.

I agree with the other old farts in this thread. When I was building up my army, the first Chapter-specific Marines were released for the Space Wolves, late in 1st edition. They looked like the first image. Four of the models were ordinary "plain" Space Marines. Compare that to the second picture and you can see how the "bling creep" has progressed.

I thiink we can all agree that Space Wolves models took a left turn into Crazy town and started doing lines of warp dust.

That being said, A large portion of today's GW audience has never seen anything before 7th. So Primaris go over well. They never played OG40k, which came out over 20 years ago.

Saying that GW has to keep up with the models of yesteryear is like the music purists claiming CD's will never work out, Vinyl for life!

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I thiink we can all agree that Space Wolves models took a left turn into Crazy town and started doing lines of warp dust.

That being said, A large portion of today's GW audience has never seen anything before 7th. So Primaris go over well. They never played OG40k, which came out over 20 years ago.

Saying that GW has to keep up with the models of yesteryear is like the music purists claiming CD's will never work out, Vinyl for life!

I’ve only started my collection this edition, but I’ve taken the measures to look at a lot of the old stuff. I also appreciate how newer models have lots of throwbacks to older versions. For example, Scion hot-shot lasguns have targeters, like they used to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or, the recent CSM shoulder launcher.

To be honest I cant understand how people prefer boring samey marines with a different paint job instead of clearly different chapter aesthetic. I can understand the different aesthetical preferences. I just dont understand what kind of boxes and kits one could whant.
Of course Im a dark angel player, but i just never understood the complaints. Theres only so much "basic unblinged marines" you can do. Nobody forced others to buy the sternguard veteran box, or the dark Angel veteran one.
You could do a full SM army with the tactical, devastator and assault squad boxes. Just using paint to mark HQs and veterans.
But having all of those blinged boxes are phenomenal to add variety to the range.
Is like having Steel Legion, Cadian, Krieg and Vostroyan boxes, and asking to only have Cadians (In a hypotetical scenario were their kit was good) because they look cleaner. Like... You allready have it.

This marine bling debate is much older that the primaris, no one is right or wrong, people have different preferences. Because this, it is the best if the most bling comes as optional extra bits, so people can choose whether they want to add that or not. It is true that currently the stock primaris kits do not come with much of such optional stuff; there is some in chapter upgrade sprues. However, as it has been noted, many of the old bits are perfectly compatible. Personally I have a had a blast with personalising my primaris marines with the contents of my bits box.

Also, the full kit primaris models are not monopose, let's stop repeating that old lie.

If you take Primaris Marines out of the box and build them with the kit provided, they are boring.

However, if you get creative even with various Primaris kits, you can make some wild and interesting combinations. And the options are exponentially greater once you start kitbashing them with OG Marines.

For perspective, one of my Deathwatch Kill-Teams:

-Intercessor Sergeant, Space Wolf- Uses Space Wolves 'bearded viking' head, rune bits, Runed Bolter (Auto Bolt Rifle) and Frost Blade Chainsword.

-Intercessor, Raptor- Eliminator Sergeant head and backpack. Additional pouches and gear fixed to the belt. Added supressor to the Bolt Rifle.

-Intercessor, Ultramarine- Infiltrator backpack, various 'comms' kit and Praetorian Forge World Helmet.

-Reiver Sergeant, Flesh Tearers- Knife blade swap with a more 'serrated' blade. Forge World Blood Angel helmet, various blood-drop iconography on the belt.

-Reiver, Dark Angel. Uses DA Forge World Helmet, various 'flowing robe' and DA iconography, and DA Backpack.

-Intercessor Gunner, Imperial Fist- Uses "China Lake" style grenade Launcher kitbashed from Biker kit onto shooting pistol hand, grenade 'strap' thrown over chest, with other grenade rounds glued to thigh plates. Phalanx Warder Helmet. Uses Hellblaster body to look 'beefier',

I like the clean look, though I also find the posing on the starter models a little more dynamic than what you get out of the kit. Of the 3 armor variants, I'm definitely most fond of the base Intercessor style. The cowl on the Gravis stuff has really grown on me as well, but I didn't really like it until I painted it up. In particular, I've become very fond of Aggressors, though I wish the ammo feeds didn't make the posing so bland. The high mobility stuff is probably my least favorite overall, but I haven't worked with it too much so that could change.

 Kroem wrote:
Yea I don't understand how they can biff it so hard with the Primaris model line, whilst simultaneously doing such a fantastic job with the recent GSC and CSM releases either...

Id like to think it was unclear direction and/ or inexperienced staff but sometimes you just make a mess of a project which defies clearing up!

This is why I am wondering if this wasn't one of those projects started by Kirby and salvaged by the new guy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
If you take Primaris Marines out of the box and build them with the kit provided, they are boring.

However, if you get creative even with various Primaris kits, you can make some wild and interesting combinations. And the options are exponentially greater once you start kitbashing them with OG Marines.

For perspective, one of my Deathwatch Kill-Teams:

-Intercessor Sergeant, Space Wolf- Uses Space Wolves 'bearded viking' head, rune bits, Runed Bolter (Auto Bolt Rifle) and Frost Blade Chainsword.

-Intercessor, Raptor- Eliminator Sergeant head and backpack. Additional pouches and gear fixed to the belt. Added supressor to the Bolt Rifle.

-Intercessor, Ultramarine- Infiltrator backpack, various 'comms' kit and Praetorian Forge World Helmet.

-Reiver Sergeant, Flesh Tearers- Knife blade swap with a more 'serrated' blade. Forge World Blood Angel helmet, various blood-drop iconography on the belt.

-Reiver, Dark Angel. Uses DA Forge World Helmet, various 'flowing robe' and DA iconography, and DA Backpack.

-Intercessor Gunner, Imperial Fist- Uses "China Lake" style grenade Launcher kitbashed from Biker kit onto shooting pistol hand, grenade 'strap' thrown over chest, with other grenade rounds glued to thigh plates. Phalanx Warder Helmet. Uses Hellblaster body to look 'beefier',

And those of us that aren't skilled in Painting and Modeling, do we just get to take what were given and say "Thank you Sir, may I have another?"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
This marine bling debate is much older that the primaris, no one is right or wrong, people have different preferences. Because this, it is the best if the most bling comes as optional extra bits, so people can choose whether they want to add that or not. It is true that currently the stock primaris kits do not come with much of such optional stuff; there is some in chapter upgrade sprues. However, as it has been noted, many of the old bits are perfectly compatible. Personally I have a had a blast with personalising my primaris marines with the contents of my bits box.

Also, the full kit primaris models are not monopose, let's stop repeating that old lie.

Unfortunately, yes.

However, my argument isn't in the bling. It's about specific examples of the primaris line looking wildly different as compared to the rest of the line.

Suppressors look like a model from a completely different game. If I knew nothing about 40K outside of having played a few of the older video games, and you showed me that model I wouldn't be able to connect it to Warhammer.

Also, I'd like to add that sometimes I think when people say monopose, they mean boring. The intercessor kit is great! However, in terms of guns, you get three choices of bolter, one that has a tiny grenade bit under the barrel. Where are the cool long range melta rifles, hellblaster guns, Big Flamers, Gravity Rifles, power swords, power axes, power spears, chain swords, thunder hammers.

Just compare that kit to the basic CSM kit, they're light years in difference from each other. Many people probably would probably say the CSM sprue is a lot better.