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New and improved double Battalion version up.


List combines Stygies and Graia toughness. Stygies is the aggressive majority of the list. Graia mostly protects the Knight and Drill from getting Jinxed/Doomed.

Stygies Dragoon blob and Drill filled with Fulgurites and the Enginseer infiltrate on turn one then try to close in ASAP with infiltrate stratagem. They deal massive damage on the charge, and they are great for virtually everything. They also screen for the Knight, which is likely going to be a wound magnet. In some cases, putting the Drill in reserve for Deep Strike also is warranted.

Styrix is the best all-rounder Knight in the meta right now. Krast is the ideal solo Knight Household, since its Tradition is somewhat redundant, and it has an excellent stratagem and relics. He has built-in Ion Bulwark and Sanctuary, so he is extremely durable; this frees him up to take First Knight as his WLT and Headsman's Mark as his relic. This makes his Feet extremely strong against other Titans. I take Reaper over the Claw because the latter is always inferior to the Feet, whereas the Reaper is specialized against T6-7 vehicles and can Chainsweep; the only reason really to take the Claw is for the Rad-cleanser, but this list has anti-elite weapons in spades. Meanwhile, the Volkite Chierovile has a great profile with good variance on the damage; swingy weapons are needed to kill other Knights, but at least this gun has a fixed 5 shots and more than 36" range.

Dominus with 4x Ironstrider are the firebase. With Doctrina, the Ironstriders can move and shoot on 2+ with RR1. They melt all sorts of vehicle targets, actually, and are way more efficient than Neutron Crawlers.

The repairman stands behind the Knight. The other Graia Enginseer should stand in front of the Knight as a sacrificial anti-Psyker screen.

Assassin deep strikes in on turn two to remove screens and threaten high value, squishy targets. They complement the Drills and Knight. Eversor for hordes and as a default, Culexus for Eldar and Chaos. Callidus for very CP-hungry armies, such as Orks or Guard.

Questions:
1) What relic should I use? Currently using Mask on the off-chance that my Dragoons are nearby, but even Tesla Skull or Omnissiah's Hand might end up making a bigger impact.

Any general feedback is welcome, but please don't be open-ended or vague.

I've always been an advocate for the Neutron Lasers, have never seen the appeal of the Icarus. Would it be worth taking Neutrons instead? You've got a lot of firepower but I can't seem to see much besides the Knight that's S8+, so you'll be fishing for 5+ to wound against fellow Knights, Russes, etc.

The Neutron Laser is not very good against 3++, actually. I actually think my Infiltrators do more wounds per point (because Wrath of Mars spits out mortal wounds). Indeed, in the past, I ran 4-6x Kastelan Robots to kill Castellans, but this also was not a sure thing given the range and height disadvantage. So those have essentially been replaced by the Styrix.

Anyhow, my Dragoons have S8+1 weapons, but I have to get them in range first. So really, I'm just hoping my Styrix will outlast the other side's Knight with cheap 3++ and healing 4.33 wounds each turn. Throw in a Callidus, and I only expect two turns of Order of Companions shooting.

(Honestly, right now, there's not much in AdMech or most armies for that matter that can easily handle a Castellan.)

Dragoons without the Stygies 8 buff are a lot easier to shoot, since you have mixed guys none of them get their FW trait benefit although you get access to the stratagems.

The Icarus Array, for about the past 2 months I have been playing with it, hasn't really been doing as well as the Neutron Laser. You comment on it not being good against 3++ but what in the world are you constantly shooting at that has a 3++? That will pretty much be just knights, but you will have a lot of IG matchups, or Eldar, or other matchups where the laser just directly WOUNDS things and they don't even get a save.

Shot your Tank Commander? He gets no save, take d6 wounds per. Same for a lot of the flyers and other vehicles out there that people take.

Array has S7 at best so it only wounds on 5's against anything that is T8 and only the first weapon of the profile has -3 AP. It is ideal for killing chafe units or killing things in the T4-T6 category, I think you are trying to get it to punch above its weight class.

I wouldn't bother running the infiltrators with the thought use WoM on them in anything less than a 10 man unit, with 6 you would probably be better off with powerswords and the carbines.

The Dragoons can hit really hard, but they are weak to things that can actually fight back. GEQ or MEQ won't hurt them easily unless they have power weapons, but if you find anything that is meant to fisticuffs they will wreck them pretty quickly.

Have recently been playing with a lot of vanguards, about to drop them all. A vast majority of the time I need them to screen my backline, which means they stand around and do nothing. Rangers do that cheaper, and rangers with snipers do it and still contribute something to the fight.

If you want to handle a castellan you might be better off using a Krast Crusader, or bringing a pile of plasma kataphrons. Think your best bet is to just use long range firepower to clear the screens and get the dragoons to tripoint it for a couple turns until the game is over.

Not sure if you considered bringing 2 battalions instead, yea you lose 2 CP but you can ensure majority of your units get the Stygies 8 buff, which im sure if it were a stratagem you might be willing to pay 2 CP to get it for the whole game on a bunch of your units. You also get to cut the Ironstrider and Servitor tax.

Yes, that is something I realized. But my thinking is that Stygies Dragoons are just as vulnerable because everyone and their mom has a way to handle them. The last AdMech that won a major (back in January 2019) had a mixed Stygies+Graia detachment as well. Still, would like to get that -1 for my troops.

I get the feeling you're strawmanning on the Crawlers. I was specifically responding to Valkyrie's comment about Knights. But Crawlers are pretty bad against 4++ too. Icarus actually outdamages them against flying 4++ and 5++. So Icarus outperforms Neutron against bikes and battlesuits, both of which are threats to the Knight. Really, Neutron is only preferred against Baneblades or Russes or something, which are relatively uncommon, and which my Dragoons and Knight can handle. So while Neutron Crawlers are nice, especially at their new price point, they are not the best choice for this list.

Not so sure about 10-man Infiltrator unit, but I agree that 6 seems a bit light. It kills a max Dark Reaper unit on average, but I worry about inconsistency. Probably see if I can bump it up to 8.

Yeah, I just had spare points. I will probably switch back to Rangers.

I haven't done any tests myself, but a friend tells me that the Krast Crusader is only good on paper for anti-Knight. He had serious troubles getting within 36" range (remember that Raven Castellan with tradition is actually faster than Krast Crusader). And even then, he was never able to kill the Castellan in time because his guns did so little damage. Styrix is the way to go because it has 5 shots with RR1, as well as good swing on the damage (3-8) on top of his durability (natural 4++ vs. shooting and 5++ vs. melee, heals 1 wound on 5+ per turn).

Plasma Kataphrons are not too great without the Guard Dagger trick. Very vulnerable to the targets they are supposed to hunt, especially on the long deployment.

Right, I will try two Battalions again. My first attempt was pretty gross. Haha.

Wasn't intending to strawman the lasers, maybe it is just a meta thing. I have gotten a lot more mileage out of them vs the Array, I run a 2/1 split on them. Still think it is worth having just because of what it can do to jetbikes.

Not sure how Krast is only good on paper, you can get the 3++ save like anyone else can, your AGC deals 4 damage per wound with headsmans mark, stormspear and thermal cannon are both d6 +2 so they basically get a minimum 3 damage per wound.

Hell even the stubber should it manage to wound does 3 damage and so if you get to the point where you can charge it then all of your kicks do +2 damage.

Are you sure he was taking headsman mark on his knight?

I haven't had an issue with the kataphrons so far, they are troops so they can hide in buildings.

Right, don't get me wrong, I like the Neutrons too, especially at the new point cost. I just worry a lot about bikes and battlesuits, and I don't think they are any use in countering Knights, which was what I was responding to.

I think the point is that Krast Crusader deals a ton of damage to a Knight profile on paper, but on the tabletop, it struggles to make an impact. It's basically a shooting Knight that is strictly worse than the Castellan, and can't beat a Gallant one-on-one. If you bring AGC+TC, you probably won't be in range at all until turn three in the long deployment. If you do AGC+RFBC, you're pretty much only going to be using the RFBC for the first two turns if your opponent pilots his Castellan correctly; he can actually kite you by advancing and shooting. All in all, it makes it feel like you are paying points for weapons you won't use. Styrix is a durable all-rounder that has good shooting and good fighting; the strategy, again, is to try to outlast the opponent and drain them of CP; Callidus definitely helps.

And yes, he was doing Ion Bulwark and Headsman's Mark. He thinks First Knight is way better than Bulwark though, but that is pretty much only an option on Styrix.

Mm... I have found it hard to fit a unit of 6 Kataphrons inside a building, but even still, they have to hunt tanks and Knights that have wayyy more range than they do.

You have to take stormspear rocket pod, its 48". Also it is worthwhile to use Benediction and give your crusader canticles with knight of the cog, so you get rr 1's when you shoot.

Lists with a castellan typically don't have much other anti armor firing. So they either try to kill the crusader or go after the kataphrons, ryza with plasma specialists and noosphere can easily drop 18+ wounds on it in a single shooting phase. Overcharged you hit on 3's and wound on 2's at 3 dmg a wound.

I have seen a couple people using the Styrix, there are definitely some positive things, getting to take rr 1's trait is nice.

Even on long sides, there is only 24" between the starting lines, it is only going to take you 2 or 3 turns of movement if you start way back in your deployment.

I will have to check if he took Stormspear, but honestly, you still get to the point where you look at a Crusader and think: This could be a Castellan for under 100 more points.

Yeah, Ryzaphrons are great. But they only move 6"+D3 per turn, and they have to get within 36" range without getting murdered by some anti-infantry unit along the way. With Dagger, you just outflank and melt something. But foot-slogging? I'll pass.

Castellans are usually wayyy in the back. You are forced to deploy the Crusader further up in a more vulnerable position, then move over maybe two turns to get in range depending on the screen (remember that you only get to move over infantry screens if you fall back).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thought about it last night. How about this?


Basically the same, but the Infiltrators and Ballistarii went into Drills and Plasma Calivers instead. I'm doing the deep strike setup for the Drills. Pop out on turn two facing your target length-wise, drop the infantry 3" behind them to shoot with the 18" plasma. Initially went with Graia, but the more I think about it, Stygies might be more useful.

IF you go drills you should definitely add priests.

Hallo,

What’s the significance of the enginseer being the warlord opposed to the dominus?

 Yoda79 wrote:
IF you go drills you should definitely add priests.

Hm... I guess I could do one unit of 11, which is 176 points. I hesitate though, since I don't want to commit too much to melee. The concept right now is to deep strike these Drills onto objectives and hold them.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Hallo,

What’s the significance of the enginseer being the warlord opposed to the dominus?

He's the repairman. He follows the Knight around. The other Graia Enginseer stands in front of the Knight to deny Eldar Doom and Jinx; he's sacrificial.

The Dominus goes into the Drill. Problem then is that he doesn't get to sit around buffing an entire gunline,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated the OP with the new list.

Would the Dominus not be better suited RR1 for the dunecrawlers of being your warlord for slightly better inv and Wounds?

See, that's one of the problems. Two Crawlers is not a whole lot of gunline to buff.

I think I need to figure out a way to shoehorn in a third Crawler:

Deciding if I want to cut one Fulgurite or downgrade the Vanguard to Rangers.

Rangers if it were me.

That extra priest could be the difference in finishing something off and getting the oh so sweet 3++

Your current list looks really fun. I’ve been playing about with something not too far removed but it has a krast crusader in it. If I had forgeworld knights I’d try the Styrix as some games I seem to roll all 1’s to hit and wish I had First Knight

When’s your next tournament?

Okay. I've got these Drills and Fulgurites collecting dust anyway.

I will be going to Bay Area Open, May 25-26. Probably will not do great because I have been travelling on business for the past two months now, but hey, it will be fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated my OP.

Just curious, what does everyone think about bringing a Manipulus? He can give Dragoons, Drills, and Fulgurites +1" move, advance, and charge. He himself can advance and still shoot his flamer without penalty. He can take Pseudogenetor or the Omniscient Mask to buff these units.

Manipulus doesn't do jack for you. You choose his ability at the start of the movement phase, but if he is in the drill you can't choose anything, so if you disembark him he does nothing that turn. This is assuming you were planning on putting him in the drill.

If you infiltrate move him AND the drill for 2 cp, separately, then I guess you could in theory give them +1 to move/charge he will end up 3" behind them after the move but I think thats the best you could get out of it.

As for your shooting, ill take rr 1's anyday over 6" more range.

Yeah, I realized. Our rules writers suck. Sighhh. New list going up.