Rogal Dorn vs Perturabo.

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**R0bcrt**

I personally voted Perturabo in a one versus one combat- he has a small arsenal on him and able to beat Daemon Angron in melee after getting weakened from the Angel Exterminatus event. Granted I don’t think it’s an automatic win but I’d put my money on ‘ol Perty. If the Black Templar’s are any indication then Dorn could well be an extremely gifted fighter and he does have Alpharius under his belt for victories, but that required help if I remember correctly.

**R0bcrt**

BrianDavion wrote:
TheOpposition wrote:
But I don't understand why people call Perturabo a petulant man child when the Emperor admited that he was on purpose keeping Perturabo out of the spotlight and making him a bitterd basstard for his own plans of the future heresy.

I haven't been keeping up with the fluff what is this about?

I don't recall the emperor himself admitting this but one of the audio tdrama's about Malcador the sigilite says the emperor intended the heresy all along and that it was engineered by carefully over praising some primarchs well ignoring others (clear allusions to Dorn and Perty) because the emperor forsaw the need to kill off the Astartes eventually and intended to let them destroy themselves.

It happens in First Lord of the Imperium, and yeah pretty much happens as you say. Having said that there is some room for doubt, as he said it to a close friend/subordinate to make her feel better and even started the phrase roughly as: "Would it make you feel better if I told you we planned it?". Personally I think that was the plan as the alternative would be gross oversights and missteps that are laughable given the power level of the Emperor and Malcador (the Emperor I could see not understanding the importance of emotional connections and communication but Malcador??). However it's important to remember Malcador is saying this after the rebellion started, and it would be very easy to spin the events in such a way to build confidence and justify things are going are going roughly as planned to the lower chain, because it would be very bad to say "yeah, we

upped and pissed off half the primarchs, my bad

.

**R0bcrt**

Duskweaver wrote:
My take on that is that the Emperor and Malcador planned something like the HH to cull the primarchs and legions that had become unreliable, but that they did not realise a full half would go traitor, and that they never specifically intended any particular primarch to turn.

Which side of the conflict certain primarchs ended up on seemed to come as a genuine surprise to the Emperor. Magnus was clearly not meant to end up a traitor. There's no way his wrecking the Imperial Webway could have been part of the Emperor's plan. Likewise, Jaghatai staying loyal was a surprise (the Emperor pretty much told Malcador to assume Jaghatai had joined Horus).

So I don't agree with the idea that the Emperor deliberately drove certain primarchs to turn traitor. I do think he was probably relieved that he kept Dorn rather than Perturabo, though, and he probably considered Angron and Curze lost causes from fairly early on.

Jaghatai was treated quite similarly to Perturabo, his achievements disregarded and apparently disdained, yet he stayed loyal. I think it comes down to testing their character. Jaghatai passed the test (to the Emperor's surprise), while Perturabo failed.

I'm inclined to agree, it would seem weird to put Horus in charge of effectively all military forces (!?) if they meant for him to go traitor as they could have contained things much better and neater if they really wanted to off him and others. Personally I imagine the likes of Angron would have been purged as there was hardly any love lost between them to begin with, although it raises the question of why even bother saving Angron. For the others I dunno, it would be interesting to get into the mind of the Emperor and see whether any of the Primarchs were meant to survive the Great Crusade and what their role would be, and what he actually thought about each Primarch individually.