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I think we all know that there are plenty of uncompetitive codex entries and weapons that need points reductions (Stompa, Buggies, Stormboyz, Flash Gitz, etc). Hopefully GW does too. I also think that some are too cheap and too good, making them an auto-take in competitive lists. For example, Wierdboyz with Da Jump, Bad moon Lootas or Tankbustas + Showin' Off strat, minimum sized grot units + Grot Shields strat, Evil Sunz Meganobz or Gorkanaut/Morkanaut + Tellyporta strat, Deathskull battalion that consists entirely of single-model units, Smasha Gun batteries, Da Killa Klaw relic, and Da Souped-Up Shokka relic. This is boring! Hopefully once other things become more competitive, these won't be so automatic, but some like Lootas and Smasha Gunz may need a points increase anyway.

However, beyond those issues, there's a larger problem: 8th edition rules for line-of-sight, cover, transport vehicle disembarkation, screening (or lack thereof), and an overall more lethal battle environment create a brutal environment for footslogging or transport-borne assault infantry with poor armor saves. Orks have to rely on tricks and gimmicks to get into close combat rather than marching down the board or hopping in Trukks like we used to. This is why you see the Da Jump power, Tellyporta strat, and Deffkilla Wartrike with a herd of Bonebreakas used over and over again in so many competitive close-combat-based Ork lists, and why the Evil Sunz clan is so common. They're the only reliable way to get into combat. This is also why shooting-based Ork armies are more common. Again, this is boring! It's also a generic problem in 8th edition, but it feels especially weird for Orks to have become a shooty deep strike army! It just doesn't feel proppa.

In order to fix that, non-deep-strike strategies and methods of getting into combat need to become more viable. Simply tweaking the points cost won't be enough. Here are some rules changes that I think would help to accomplish this, and make the codex more balanced and fun overall, with more variety in competitive builds:


Units:


Clans:


Psychic powers:


Strategems:


Relics:

SAG-Orks do not need random abilities that hurt themselves. Perhaps d3 mortal wounds on a snake eyes for Strength, and that's it.

Trukk-Needs a roll to kill if you moved at all. That's an easy first turn charge with basically anything. Even MANz, who have a 4" move, get to move 12"+3"+4" for 19" total before charging. That's an easy T1 charge for the slowest unit in the Dex.

Burnaz-How does the d6-1 work? Can they get 0 shots? And the close combat profile is FAR too good.

Bubblechucka-3d6 shots is too many.

Snakebites-5+++ is fine, +1 Wound against big models is not.

Da Jump-Doesn't need extra penalties.

Tellyporta-Doesn't need the nerf.

Da Killa Klaw-Doesn't need the nerf.

Overall, you've got a weird combination of nerfs and buffs, some of which go way too far.

Like I said, the idea was to nerf things that are overused, and buff things that aren't, to try to encourage more variety and make more of the codex competitive. Da Jump and Tellyporta for example are currently the only reliable ways for Orks to charge, unless the enemy army makes the n00b mistake of deploying far too close. It might seem stupid to propose nerfing them in the abstract, because that would just cripple Orks. But I see it as a problem that Orks need to rely on these gimmicks in the first place. If the terrain and cover rules actually made it possible to avoid some casualties on the way in, and if transport vehicles weren't worthless for transporting assault troops, then you wouldn't need to rely on the gimmicks anymore. See the proposed changes to those rules in https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/774728.page

Also, Meganobz can already walk unreasonably far with the status quo: Just make them Evil Sunz, put them in a Trukk, and hey presto, they can disembark (3"), move (4+1"), and advance (D6+1", average 4") as fast as their vehicle moves! If you accompany them with a Warboss, they can charge after advancing. With Orks' rerollable charge distance +1 for being Evil Sunz, on average they can charge something 22" away, with the max range being 28" if you're really lucky for your advance and charge rolls, or spend CPs re-rolling. Then add a few more inches for pile-in and consolidation moves... it's just silly. So my proposal wouldn't really make those Meganobz much more dangerous. In fact I see it as utterly ridiculous in the first place that Meganobz, which are supposed to be slow, can go that fast in one turn without their transport vehicle moving. It's just wrong. They *should* need a transport to go fast, and be slow as crap on foot. Anything else borders on the absurd. We had these kind of insane movement+charge ranges back in 3rd edition and it it broke the game back then too.

Finally, I'll note that nothing forces people to deploy their models at the very edge of the deployment zones. If you're deliberately deploying 24" away from Orks, I think you're doing something wrong. I can't tell you how many armies I've wrecked because they made the mistake of deploying as close as possible to Orks. Trying for a first-turn win often turns into a first turn loss if you don't happen to get the first turn.

So you see no difference between a 12” charge using every available buff, and a 5” charge that uses none?

Um... I think I do? My point was that they're currently too fast on foot. Maybe they shouldn't be able to advance.

In general I think foot infantry is too fast in this edition. The Advance mechanic is a big part of the problem. This rule (well, its earlier form) was introduced in the days when the base movement speed was 6", as a way to differentiate the speed of models that were supposed to be faster. But today with movement characteristics having returned (after being gone since 3nd edition) it's redundant and has the effect of making foot infantry able to move far too fast, which reduces the utility of transports.

So your solution to “infantry are too fast” is make them faster?

I disagree with most of these changes.

-Don't touch the SSAG at all. The 2d6 shots is what makes it viable. I don't play the regular which shows that 2d6 shots should probably be closer to what the weapon should be on it's own.
-As someone who rolls double 1's like crazy. I will quit playing orks, again, i quit in 7th, if they put killing himself back in. Shooting 2 shots hurts enough. DONT CHANGE

-Da supa cybork allows a 4++ to combo with a painboy nearby. DONT CHANGE


-DS' 6++ is perfectly fine as I hardly roll it anyway.

-Nerf to Da jump doesn't make any sense as other armies can do this also without any downside.
-Same goes for Tellyporta Stratagem. DONT CHANGE

-Showing off is the same as other army strats as well. It allows us to combo with More Dakka if we want to go for a combo. DONT CHANGE

-Da killa Klaw- Once again the flat damage boost and no -1 is like other armies PF relics. DONT CHANGE

These units you are asking to have nerfed are all viable NOT OP. They work and sometimes barely. (I've rolled double 1's for shots and for S on the same turn. so how does my 2 S2 shots need to be change

Most of the nerfs you listed are unfounded. It's almost as if you suffered a horrible defeat at the hands them and asked for every unit we have that works to become unusable and take the place of other units. INSTEAD! GW should addressed the unused units and make slight points adjustments until those units get intermingled with the ones we already use. This way when you decide to build a list, you have the choice to go in any direction versus just using the units we don't use now in place of the ones we do.

I only agree on 2 points. Models/rules for missing HQ and billowing fumes for bikes. For the rest of the suggestions I feel as other users already have expressed.

Burna boyz are such an easy fix I don't know why GW cant seem to get it right.

They seem to overvalue burnas just because its such a huge improvement on a normal BS5+ unit.


Just take the base boy its on, and use the following burna profile:

Burna- assaultD6, str4, D1 Units in melee may use their burna to attack in the fight phase. If they do, they get -1 to hit (due to the clunkyness of swinging a flamethrower in melee) and gain AP-3.

Point cost of the burna would be 8 points.



I'd also give the burna boyz a stratagem that lets them fire their flamers into melee