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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Los Angeles

If you viewed my Space Marine list, I now know that humanity will lose the galaxy if it depends on Adeptus Astartes. The AM and the Ehmprah's Custodes are going to be doing the heavy lifting.
My 5 game GT Battle for LA score was LLLDL.

That said ...

... I'm back to elves. I am putting elvish fire power, durability, mobility and flexibility in the list.

From mostly Drukari, a Black Heart kabal of ravagers and wyches and scourges ...

To Wave Serpents, the usual psy support and a contingent of Vect, of course.

My quandry is for bad-ass guns, which is better?

A unit of 10 Dark Reapers vs 3 ravagers. I start at this size because the points cost is close:
DR - 345 points with the exarch having a Tempest Launcher while 3 ravagers are 378 with Disintegrators and Shock Prows (a pittance of cost)

DR - 11 wounds
Ravagers - 30 wounds

DR - T3
Rs - T6

DR - armor 3+
Rs - 4+ & 5++ , but DRs can readily deploy and stay in cover, not the boats, for whom cover is not likely.

DR - 6" move
Rs - 14"

DR - BS 3 with Inescapable Accuracy
Rs - BS3 but can degrade

The real comparison though is their guns. And I'd like help here from you dakkaites, to make sure I got it right and any permutations. I think we'll go without reroll ones for autarch/archon bubbles, nor Doom or Writ of the Living Muse.

DRs - 18 shots at S5, -2 AP, 2 damage.
x3 Ravs - 27 shots, S5, -3, 2 damage.

DRs hit 12 times, wounding MEqs 8 times, at -2 killing 6 spess muhreens. GEqs will be wounded the same, but all will die.
Ravs hit 18 times, wounding MEqs 12 times, at -3 killing 10 spess muhreens. 12 GEqs will vaporize.

DR Tempest Launcher averages 7 rolls, 6 of which will hit. MEqs will be dealt 3 wounds, and lose 2 dudes. GEqs will lose 4 guys. Adding those on give us:
DRs kill 12 power armored dorks and 10 MEqs.
Ravs kill 10 Adeptus and 12 guardsmen.

Invulnerable Saves honk up the math so I'll skip to T6 targets.

DRs hit 12 times, wounding a T6 tank 4 times, at -2, doing ~2 wounds, given 3+ or 4+ armor. (The smart player has the tempest launcher poke something else ... or ***
Ravs hit 18 times, wounding a T6 tank 6 times, at -3 doing 5 wounds. Maybe 4.

But, DRs will use the Starshots instead:
***DRs shoot 9 S8 shots, hitting with 6. At better str. that T6 tank need to make 5 or 6 saves at -2. At ~2 or 3 failed saved that deals 9 wounds. Ravagers don't have an answer for that, not unless one finds the magic strategem that allows switching to Dark Lances.

DRs will kill armor better. Ravs kill more infantry, but not a lot more. Boats move, like fast. I've been fielding Ravs for 9 months in 8e and they're surprisingly resilient. I know that if the DRs are Alaitoc and in Cover they're going to be pretty durable, too, but more than the Ravagers?

So, 30 points for a lot more Drukhari wounds and hella mobility (and ITC mission point scoring; objectives and recon, B.E.L. Even the Screaming Jets strategem is good, and cheaper than WWP. Or, cheaper & better DR shooting versus flyers enemy Alaitoc, Nurgle-fly clouds of -1 to hit, etc. We don't even need to do the math versus T8 targets.

They're both so good. Maybe take both?

There goes 2 Wave Serpents though (who fill a completely different roll this edition ... *sigh* I miss the madness that was 6e. Kinda like Dexter Morgan's 2nd season girl friend, Lila; wild, crazy-sexy, good looking, a hella fun and scary ride that needed to end sooner than it did).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/05 07:27:26


"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.

"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013

Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, my pick is usually 2x 5 Dark Reapers, Farseer on jetbike, and Autarch on jetbike.
Both can boost the shooting of the DRs if necessary.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Dusty Skeleton




without doom and jinx to help the dissies along, I think I would 100% go for the Dark Reapers. I don't think the ravagers with dissies have a long life left in this brave new post-faq world.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Los Angeles

Prescience: I shelved the wych half of this army 3 weeks ago.

Seabass wrote:
without doom and jinx to help the dissies along, I think I would 100% go for the Dark Reapers. I don't think the ravagers with dissies have a long life left in this brave new post-faq world.

Agreed. After playing a disappointing GT with SM (Battle for LA), I now think a Mech-dar list of the best boats from both codexes will serve me better. And Dark Reapers.

I will likely field 6 and 5 as I might as well put every DR model I won on the field. DRs hit assassins on 3s. Everything, even rangers who use their only strategem (which I think is not right; spending Strat points ought to have a head up on squad abilities. Oh, well).

And, Doom help or not, I think Dis Can Ravs are still great. That's why, shortly, I will post a list with both.

Thanks, guys.

"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.

"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013

Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Los Angeles

**edit**all better and worth looking at

Lemme edit and rethink this:

Spoiler:
My old Drukhari list had x3 wyche units in raiders, with 2 succubi. They're out and I ask you consider its closer, post-FAQ reiteration:

Black Heart
Battalion #1
Archon - Husk Blade, Writ of the Living Muse
Succubus - ShardNet & Imp

Trueborn x5, x4 blasters
Venom

Trueborn x5, x4 blasters
Venom (character sniping with these units is a solid, and they'll bag a few A.M. tanks too)

x3 Kabalites troops at min size

x3 DisCan Ravagers

x1 Scourge units, 4 haywire blasters each

Battalion #2 (cult of Red Grief for the Succubi to tie up units faster or Poisoned Tongue for the Kabs? I like Red Grief)
x2 Succubus - ShardNet & Imp
x3 Kabalites troops at min size

Battalion #3
Farseer SkyRunner, singing spear
Spiritseer

x3 Rangers at 5 each
x3 Dark Reaper units, each with Tempest Launcher exarchs

1960 - room for blasters in Kab squads, perhaps?

Or a significantly different elvish army. I have played Wave Serpents in 5e, 6th & 7th, so there's nothing new for me here, and I understand they're not the gun boats that they were in 6e, but they'll still tie up enemy untis for a turn of Fall Back/no shooting and just overall resilience:

Battalion #1
Alaitoc (what relic to take?)
Autarch w/ Warp Generator - Reaper Launcher, Banshee Mask (index entry)
Farseer Skyrunner
x10 guardians
x10 guardians
x8 Storm Guardians
x3 Dark Reaper units, with x2 Tempest Launchers, not 3
x2 Wave Serpents - not sure which guns to take, this list has them with Bright Lances, Crystal Target Matrices

Battalion #2
x2 Spiritseer
x3 ranger units

Battalion #3
Black Heart
Archon - Husk Blade
Succubus - ShardNet & Imp
x3 Kabalites
x3 DisCan Ravagers

1999

The orange list has the advantage of the one being closer to what I've played for months, therefore familiarity. But I've been rarely going 2-1 at RTTs (usually 1&2), 3&3 at LVO and the last 2 GTs, only 4 and 1. I think removal of the wyches is key, as they're the significantly 'glass' portion of the hammer. The lhamaeans free up points as no other HQs make sense. Pricier archons make no sense as the one is going to babysit the Ravagers and that's all these drukhari need, since they're not Talos/Wrack themed. And no wyches.



The second list is sporting the resilient Wave Serpents. The guardian units are situational, but stronger than kabalites, whom I'm used to tossing off table with regularity. Both lists have the ravs and DRs for core shooting, with HQ buffing. Autarch with the DRs. But what Wave S gun load-out?

My query is do I take the 2nd, not having used Storm Guardians & Guardian Defenders and thus likely to misuse them, but gaining the fabulous Wave S.?
Or go with the old formula, minus the weak sauce wyches, and DRs added for boost? 2 venoms with TruBlasters are awesome anti-T and character sniping what the rangers might finish off.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/05 07:27:05


"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.

"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013

Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic 
   
 
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