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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




What is the game play space now the FAQ has landed like a bomb?

For me some things I was considering (I won’t implement most of these)

Avatar and Ycarne smash brothers list. Not sure it’s good, but is would be interesting.
Grey knight/Space Marine Librarian in Phobos, and normal Space Marine Librarian play.

No need to be salty, just wondering what people are considering. It is a clear canvas. What are you considering?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It's going to be interesting to see what space opens up in the "light vehicle/ transport" category. We have already seen players like Brandon grant and Reece move towards chimeras and LRBT in anticipation of the castalin nerf and lists like what Jim Vesal has been dominating with are unaffected by the FAQ. The castellan suppressed so many units in so many codexes it's really hard to say what's going to rise to the top now especially with the fly rule change as well which makes it much harder for lists like Brandon grants to screen you out.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




That is interesting Admodios. That might fall into the Drop pod wall coming back now it has the petal/counts as hull rule coming back.

I wonder if TAU is going to move up the charts. Mostly untouched, they have had some force options that are still viabile, or more so with Ynarri and Castellan changes.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





IG+Knight still top, might still be the Castellan, might be Crusader.
Eldar still a close 2nd. Either Craftworld/DE or a soup of the 2.
Tau and some version of Chaos sharing 3/4.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/30 14:49:36


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Reemule wrote:
That is interesting Admodios. That might fall into the Drop pod wall coming back now it has the petal/counts as hull rule coming back.

I wonder if TAU is going to move up the charts. Mostly untouched, they have had some force options that are still viabile, or more so with Ynarri and Castellan changes.

Yeah, Tau was already doing very very well but the change in fly does make their screening less effective than it was previously. All I know is I'm very excited to see where the meta goes because the number 1 reason always given for why "x" unit wasn't taken was "well a castellan will just kill it" now that it's changed the entire meta is going to shift.... will it be enough for light transports to make a big comback? maybe maybe not but id love to see drop pods, chimeras and rhinos unloading troops again
   
Made in gb
Sinewy Scourge




I'm looking at playing with a seer council list. Going to try it out as Ynarri and as Craftworlds. The CW one has been working well for me, but I like the idea of casting some of the Ynarri powers, particularly Storm of Whispers, on a unit with the footprint of a 9/10 man jetlock council!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Ordana wrote:
IG+Knight still top, might still be the Castellan, might be Crusader.
Eldar still a close 2nd. Either Craftworld/DE or a soup of the 2.
Tau and some version of Chaos sharing 3/4.

Not saying that IG knight won't be strong but how do you feel about people like Jim Vessel that are steamrolling these list pre FAQ and his list remains largely untouched? I think chaos/ chaos demons and possibly Tau might shoot to the top without the castellan to hold up the entire Imperium
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Asmodios wrote:
Reemule wrote:
That is interesting Admodios. That might fall into the Drop pod wall coming back now it has the petal/counts as hull rule coming back.

I wonder if TAU is going to move up the charts. Mostly untouched, they have had some force options that are still viabile, or more so with Ynarri and Castellan changes.

Yeah, Tau was already doing very very well but the change in fly does make their screening less effective than it was previously. All I know is I'm very excited to see where the meta goes because the number 1 reason always given for why "x" unit wasn't taken was "well a castellan will just kill it" now that it's changed the entire meta is going to shift.... will it be enough for light transports to make a big comback? maybe maybe not but id love to see drop pods, chimeras and rhinos unloading troops again


For light transports to come back, you need things to carry that need to go places.

For example, Rhinos and Immolators are very good in a Sisters army, because the army has a effective range of about 12" or less and needs to go for a ride to get to the enemy. Rhinos are also reasonably effective for Chaos, who have powerful assault troops that won't make it on foot. I use a bunch of Rhinos in my Sisters army, to the point where I need to buy more of them because I have too many Immolators and not enough Rhinos, and 3 of the Chaos players I know have Rhino-borne infantry as a core element of their list.

Space Marines and Guard, though, don't really have units that would like the sacrifice a round of shooting to get closer to the enemy, so in turn it's not really useful to them to have Rhinos and Chimerae. There are quite a few Razorbacks on the field because they have guns, but they just act as mini-tanks. And as Guard, I can walk anywhere largely as fast as the Chimera can get me there, with Forwards for the Emperor or Move Move Move.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/30 14:59:26


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don't know if I agree with your premises.

From my ITC minded POV, you do need some kind of travel and transport. Be that Deepstriking, or transports. Not sure the Rhino is the right choice or not, but having options isn't a bad thing.

Also, its so hard to see what the new question is going to be, how can we say this isn't the answer?

   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Asmodios wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
IG+Knight still top, might still be the Castellan, might be Crusader.
Eldar still a close 2nd. Either Craftworld/DE or a soup of the 2.
Tau and some version of Chaos sharing 3/4.

Not saying that IG knight won't be strong but how do you feel about people like Jim Vessel that are steamrolling these list pre FAQ and his list remains largely untouched? I think chaos/ chaos demons and possibly Tau might shoot to the top without the castellan to hold up the entire Imperium
That 40k is a game of chance and winning a tournament is therefor also a chance? Not to say skill doesn't play a big big rule. There is a reason we keep seeing the same names at the top but it does mean that any of the top armies can take a tournament on any given day.
If you take the top 10 from a dozen big tournaments and filter it down to a top list of armies I expect Eldar and IG+Stuff to rate higher then Chaos or Tau. Doesn't mean they can't win tournaments.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Reemule wrote:
I don't know if I agree with your premises.

From my ITC minded POV, you do need some kind of travel and transport. Be that Deepstriking, or transports. Not sure the Rhino is the right choice or not, but having options isn't a bad thing.

Also, its so hard to see what the new question is going to be, how can we say this isn't the answer?



My ITC minded POV says the opposite. My Sisters need transports because they've got to go to the enemy to be effective, and have rules that enhance the abilities of mechanized sisters. My Guardsmen don't, because they can reach the objectives and score 4 points a turn by walking there and shooting. My Space Wolves sit in between. Sometimes I hide in my Razorbacks and Deep Strike, but I rarely use the former for transport, mostly for drop-reduction and hiding from Basilisks and Vindicares.

ITC in particular definitely less you get away with much less transport. Between the fact you only need to hold more objectives than the enemy, and that a lot of points are granted for destruction of enemy units, I find that taking the middle on foot and keeping my units out of their carriers and shooting goes a lot farther than riding around inside of Rhinos all day.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Ordana wrote:
Asmodios wrote:
 Ordana wrote:
IG+Knight still top, might still be the Castellan, might be Crusader.
Eldar still a close 2nd. Either Craftworld/DE or a soup of the 2.
Tau and some version of Chaos sharing 3/4.

Not saying that IG knight won't be strong but how do you feel about people like Jim Vessel that are steamrolling these list pre FAQ and his list remains largely untouched? I think chaos/ chaos demons and possibly Tau might shoot to the top without the castellan to hold up the entire Imperium
That 40k is a game of chance and winning a tournament is therefor also a chance? Not to say skill doesn't play a big big rule. There is a reason we keep seeing the same names at the top but it does mean that any of the top armies can take a tournament on any given day.
If you take the top 10 from a dozen big tournaments and filter it down to a top list of armies I expect Eldar and IG+Stuff to rate higher then Chaos or Tau. Doesn't mean they can't win tournaments.


NICE Ordana goes right to game theory!I recall somewhere that if your event does a cut off, in general, any of the cut off should be able to win, based off luck. They all had enough skill, to get to the top 8, at that point, its who ever has the slightest error or poor luck on even a minor roll can fail, and someone else succeed.

Myself I have to faction rate as:

1. Guard + Imperium. Its just a big toolbox and and the guard is a solid foundation to take almost anything from that toolbox onto the field.
2.Chaos. Chaos has almost as big of toolbox, and the playing field just got much more level with Ynnarri and IMperium nerfed.
3Tau/Nids/Eldar Tau and Nids are old factions, and mostly complete factions. The have answers, and now that some of the questions aren't as hard to answer, its a step up for them. Eldar still have a even bigger toolbox, but I think they are more in disarray over the uncertainty of the Ynnari. I think for 2 months they are in recovery mode, unless someone was gaming next level with them.

4th Orks.
5th Marines.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






I think the Castellan and Ynnari changes open it up a LOT. I expect to see a lot more variation in builds.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Nerf to grey knights next rules update.

Its has happened every time since 6th ed
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




The brotherhood champion won't be used as often, that is for sure. Tau could get better with castellans not around, but who knows, maybe something else is going to replace him. Maybe somewhere out there some genius general is testing a melee eldar Inari list, that is going to rock the meta.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Reemule wrote:


NICE Ordana goes right to game theory!I recall somewhere that if your event does a cut off, in general, any of the cut off should be able to win, based off luck. They all had enough skill, to get to the top 8, at that point, its who ever has the slightest error or poor luck on even a minor roll can fail, and someone else succeed.

Myself I have to faction rate as:

1. Guard + Imperium. Its just a big toolbox and and the guard is a solid foundation to take almost anything from that toolbox onto the field.
2.Chaos. Chaos has almost as big of toolbox, and the playing field just got much more level with Ynnarri and IMperium nerfed.
3Tau/Nids/Eldar Tau and Nids are old factions, and mostly complete factions. The have answers, and now that some of the questions aren't as hard to answer, its a step up for them. Eldar still have a even bigger toolbox, but I think they are more in disarray over the uncertainty of the Ynnari. I think for 2 months they are in recovery mode, unless someone was gaming next level with them.

4th Orks.
5th Marines.


Are Marines not Imperium? There are a few decent options Marines bring to the toolbox, and if Guard isn't separate from Knights or Custodes, I don't see why you'd rank Marines separately.

Also, what about Necrons? Did they stop existing to make way for Marines to defect into their own faction when everybody else is being considered by alliance

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/30 20:58:56


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I feel like a lot of the Necrons just never come together. It always seems like they are waiting for a fix or a model, but never really ready for prime time.

And on marines.. For some reasons Guard, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Vanilla Marines feel like the main forces of the Imperium.

And maybe it isn't even based in a reality, (specifically considering there are 10K custodes, and only 1K ultramarines)

But the way it is important is if 40K went a complete wipe, and the game was retired and a new game was coming out, in some form, from the start, Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Dork Angels, and Blood Angels will be there. I don't think you can say that for Custodes, or Knights, or maybe even guard.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Personally, I see there being something like the following –

Top of the pile –
T’au, Imperium (either with the Castellan or 3 Crusaders/2 Crusaders and a Gallant, or with the new Custodes Spearhead.), Craftworlds and Chaos soup.

Next tier –
Chaos mono-god, Orks, Aeldari Soup and Guard. They still have a lot of options and the power to back the list up.

Next –
Druhkari, Nids, GSC, CSM and Admech.

This would then be followed by everyone else in whatever order you’d personally like. Some things have changed, but flyer spam and Castallens/Knights will still be a thing.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think Eldar Craftworld could be a dark horse. They have a plethora of options, but are only really hampered by having a early codex, so some of the stratagems/Relics/Traits you would think they should have aren't there.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Reemule wrote:
I think Eldar Craftworld could be a dark horse. They have a plethora of options, but are only really hampered by having a early codex, so some of the stratagems/Relics/Traits you would think they should have aren't there.


Personally, I think the only reason why Craftworlds didn’t appear so much lately is because of Ynnari. Now that they’ve gone, they’ll start appearing again.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Top 5

IG/Knights (crusader now)
Tau
GSC
Aeldari Soup/DE
Chaos/Chaos Soup

You'll see time to time, Orks , Nids, and Marines

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/01 14:24:09


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