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Q: Can a unit that is within 1" of the enemy and entirely within
3" of a friendly Transport embark into that transport without
having to move? For example, because they cannot Fly and
would have to move through enemy models?
A: No.

I cant decipher what this means ? can someone spell it out for me, I must be dense, I have read it like 30 times.

So if you are within 3" of a transport you can embark into it. The model does not have to move up to the transport to embark. You simply remove the model from the table and it is considered to be embarked.

So, if your model/unit in question is both within 1" of a enemy unit (and thus in combat and cannot move except to fall back) AND within 3" of the transport, can you simply embark instead of, or as part of, falling back, even if the enemy models would be between you and the transport (since you don't actually have to move around or over them to reach the transport to get inside).

The answer is no.

Thank you,
you made this make so much more sense.
I appreciate this.

The way its worded models have to be able to move in order to embark on a transport. If enemy models are between your transport and your models they cant embark, because models cant move through enemy models. Unless your models have the FLY keyword, which allows them to ignore enemy models when moving in the movement phase. Now, this can create some weird situations. Lets say your unit is in melee with an enemy unit that prevents you from moving/falling back. You wouldnt be able to embark, even if no enemy units are between your units and your transport.

 p5freak wrote:
Now, this can create some weird situations. Lets say your unit is in melee with an enemy unit that prevents you from moving/falling back. You wouldnt be able to embark, even if no enemy units are between your units and your transport.

Why is that weird? Your unit is too tangled in wych nets to clamber through the access hatch.

 p5freak wrote:
The way its worded models have to be able to move in order to embark on a transport. If enemy models are between your transport and your models they cant embark, because models cant move through enemy models.

It does not mention enemy models between your transport and your models at all, so clearly it can not be referring to this.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The way its worded models have to be able to move in order to embark on a transport. If enemy models are between your transport and your models they cant embark, because models cant move through enemy models.

It does not mention enemy models between your transport and your models at all, so clearly it can not be referring to this.

Q: Can a unit that is within 1" of the enemy and entirely within
3" of a friendly Transport embark into that transport without
having to move?
A: No.

Let me remove the part with the example for you. It says you cant embark without having to move, when there are enemy models within 1". Which means you have to move in order to embark, when your models are within 1" of enemy models. If there are enemy models between your transport and your models those models cant embark because you cant move your models through enemy models. Thats what the example explains.

For example, because they cannot Fly and
would have to move through enemy models?

Enemy models however dont necessarily have to be between the transport and your models to prevent them from embarking.

 p5freak wrote:
If there are enemy models between your transport and your models those models cant embark because you cant move your models through enemy models. Thats what the example explains.

Incorrect.

Again it does not mention having enemy models between your transport and your models.

Q: Can a unit that is within 1" of the enemy and entirely within 3" of a friendly Transport embark into that transport without having to move?
A: No.

Does that mention having enemy models between your transport and your models? if so, I can not find it.

Given X is the Transport (assuming all Y models are entirely within 3" ofX) and Y are friendly models and E is the enemy models (and E and Y are within 1 inch of each other) this is possible from that FAQ:


XXXX
XXXX
....YYY
.......EEEE


See, there are no enemy models between the Transport and friendly models, and the Y models still can not embark on the transport. those models cant embark because they are within 1 inch of an enemy and can not move. It has nothing to do with moving through enemy models.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
If there are enemy models between your transport and your models those models cant embark because you cant move your models through enemy models. Thats what the example explains.

Incorrect.

Again it does not mention having enemy models between your transport and your models.

Q: Can a unit that is within 1" of the enemy and entirely within 3" of a friendly Transport embark into that transport without having to move?
A: No.

Does that mention having enemy models between your transport and your models? if so, I can not find it.

Given X is the Transport (assuming all Y models are entirely within 3" ofX) and Y are friendly models and E is the enemy models (and E and Y are within 1 inch of each other) this is possible from that FAQ:


XXXX
XXXX
....YYY
.......EEEE


See, there are no enemy models between the Transport and friendly models, and the Y models still can not embark on the transport. those models cant embark because they are within 1 inch of an enemy and can not move. It has nothing to do with moving through enemy models.

You don't see it in the question you quote because that is not the question from the faq.

Q: Can a unit that is within 1" of the enemy and entirely within
3" of a friendly Transport embark into that transport without
having to move? For example, because they cannot Fly and
would have to move through enemy models?
A: No.

There.
Now you can see it.

 Ordana wrote:
You don't see it in the question you quote because that is not the question from the faq.

Q: Can a unit that is within 1" of the enemy and entirely within
3" of a friendly Transport embark into that transport without
having to move? For example, because they cannot Fly and
would have to move through enemy models?
A: No.

There.
Now you can see it.

Where does that say If there are enemy models between your transport and your models those models cant embark because you cant move your models through enemy models?

That does not mention having enemy models between your transport and your models.

Move through does not mean they are necessarily between your transport and your models.They could be next to them.

But the simpler answer is that you can not move if you are within 1 inch of enemy models, so you can not embark.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
You don't see it in the question you quote because that is not the question from the faq.

Q: Can a unit that is within 1" of the enemy and entirely within
3" of a friendly Transport embark into that transport without
having to move? For example, because they cannot Fly and
would have to move through enemy models?
A: No.

There.
Now you can see it.

Where does that say If there are enemy models between your transport and your models those models cant embark because you cant move your models through enemy models?

That does not mention having enemy models between your transport and your models.

Move through does not mean they are necessarily between your transport and your models.They could be next to them.

But the simpler answer is that you can not move if you are within 1 inch of enemy models, so you can not embark.

Because if they are next to the transport your not moving through them but past them.
You know what 'move through' means right?
it kinda requires them to be between you and the place your going.

 Ordana wrote:
Because if they are next to the transport your not moving through them but past them.
You know what 'move through' means right?
it kinda requires them to be between you and the place your going.

Some vehicles could have the base not between the models and their transport, but you would still be moving through them.

But the simpler answer is that you can not move if you are within 1 inch of enemy models, so you can not embark.

Unless you fall back ?

Yeah, you can Fall Back and *then* Embark, as per normal. You just *have to* Fall Back first. Assumingly so that you have to accept the penalties for Falling Back.

I play harlies,,,, no problem XD them penalties are fine XD. thanks for all the clarification guys

 flandarz wrote:
Yeah, you can Fall Back and *then* Embark, as per normal. You just *have to* Fall Back first. Assumingly so that you have to accept the penalties for Falling Back.

But then you're in a transport. What penalties would apply if your unit is no longer on the table?

I'm pretty sure this question is only included to address the issue of people trying to embark units in a transport to get them away from close combat when they're surrounded, or there is no legal movement path for them to follow for some other reason. TFG might have claimed that his models were within 3" of the transport and therefore eligible to embark because the rules do not explicitly say you have to pretend-walk your models up to the vehicle's hatches to get them inside while shouting "Rev'em up, they're coming for us!".
Of course, we can try to dissect the wording and be all clever about it if we feel that there is both insufficient complication and a surplus of common sense in our lives.

Well, some Transports have the Open Topped rule, but yeah. I don't disagree with you.

just to be clear,
If a unit advances, or falls back, then embarks into an open top vehicle the penalties for advancing and falling back still apply ?

I thought the unit counted as not being on the battlefield, so I figured the penalty wouldn't carry over.

Type40 wrote:
just to be clear,
If a unit advances, or falls back, then embarks into an open top vehicle the penalties for advancing and falling back still apply ?

I thought the unit counted as not being on the battlefield, so I figured the penalty wouldn't carry over.

It won't carry over since the unit inside the transport effectively doesn't exist as far as the game is concerned. It's the Open Topped rule that gives them the ability to shoot, and explicitly states what penalties apply to the unit.

Ok so this is a legit play then?

Harlies Troupe advances, embarks, vehicle moves regular, harlies shoot fusion pistols, termanators melt (hopefully)

Pretty cheesy, but legal. The penalty for advancing would not apply to the harlies, because they are no longer on the battlefield. Only modifiers that apply to the transport would apply to the embarked unit as well.

 p5freak wrote:
Pretty cheesy, but legal. The penalty for advancing would not apply to the harlies, because they are no longer on the battlefield. Only modifiers that apply to the transport would apply to the embarked unit as well.

Are you proposing that Lootas can advance, embark on a trukk, and then Fire their deffgunz (and without penalty)?

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Pretty cheesy, but legal. The penalty for advancing would not apply to the harlies, because they are no longer on the battlefield. Only modifiers that apply to the transport would apply to the embarked unit as well.

Are you proposing that Lootas can advance, embark on a trukk, and then Fire their deffgunz (and without penalty)?

Yes, that is exactly correct. Stupid, but all of 8th edition is stupid at this point.

Yeah, they can do that. But, because you can't use Stratagems on Embarked Units, you wouldn't be able to double shoot.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Pretty cheesy, but legal. The penalty for advancing would not apply to the harlies, because they are no longer on the battlefield. Only modifiers that apply to the transport would apply to the embarked unit as well.

Are you proposing that Lootas can advance, embark on a trukk, and then Fire their deffgunz (and without penalty)?

Everyone can do that. Everyone who embarks on an open topped vehicle.

Well this is some rules lawyering nonsense. You don’t ignore the Advancing penalty if you embark, and the Transports rules don’t give an exhaustive list of modifiers, they simply state how the Transport can affect its occupants. There’s nothing in the rules stating you ignore Advancing. Stop trying to staple rules together and ignore others and claim it’s somehow RAW.

Yes, you ignore the advancing penalty if you embark, because of the transport rule : "Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any
way whilst they are embarked." The modifier of shooting an assault weapon after advancing would affect them in any way.

They can even shoot heavy weapons after advancing, because : "Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any
way whilst they are embarked." The restriction of not being able to shoot heavy weapons after advancing would affect them in any way.

And because they arent on the battlefield anymore.

The open topped rule gives them permission to shoot, and only modifiers that apply to the transport apply to the embarked unit as well.

 p5freak wrote:
Yes, you ignore the advancing penalty if you embark, because of the transport rule : "Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any
way whilst they are embarked." The modifier of shooting an assault weapon after advancing would affect them in any way.

They can even shoot heavy weapons after advancing, because : "Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any
way whilst they are embarked." The restriction of not being able to shoot heavy weapons after advancing would affect them in any way.

And because they arent on the battlefield anymore.

The open topped rule gives them permission to shoot, and only modifiers that apply to the transport apply to the embarked unit as well.

The key is "normally" in the sentence. Advancing gives the unit restrictions that it normally wouldn't have. The transport rules don't magically wipe out restrictions on the unit because normally the unit wouldn't have had those penalties except for having done something to incur those restrictions. "Normally" isn't "always"

 doctortom wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Yes, you ignore the advancing penalty if you embark, because of the transport rule : "Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any
way whilst they are embarked." The modifier of shooting an assault weapon after advancing would affect them in any way.

They can even shoot heavy weapons after advancing, because : "Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any
way whilst they are embarked." The restriction of not being able to shoot heavy weapons after advancing would affect them in any way.

And because they arent on the battlefield anymore.

The open topped rule gives them permission to shoot, and only modifiers that apply to the transport apply to the embarked unit as well.

The key is "normally" in the sentence. Advancing gives the unit restrictions that it normally wouldn't have. The transport rules don't magically wipe out restrictions on the unit because normally the unit wouldn't have had those penalties except for having done something to incur those restrictions. "Normally" isn't "always"

Unfortunately if we use that logic, no restrictions or bonuses are "normal" by your definition. As advancing is a part of the normal base rules (just like targeting a unit for shooting or charging, or taking morale checks), it only gets less normal from there (psychic abilities, auras, chapter tactics and etc) .If that is the case then, what you are saying is, an embarked unit can be affected by any and all things, making that a bit of a useless piece of rules text.

I am pretty sure, normal, in this context, is used to describe any time an ability or effect does not specifically reference a unit in a transport. What would be not-normal is when an abilities does specific reference something in a transport (like faolchu's talon from the harlequins codex pg 77)