Shadowrun 6th Edition?

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**warboss**

I wouldn't call five years roughly IIRC to be rapid personally. My local campaign fizzled out last October and I was debating whether to sell the book for this very reason but decided against it just in case we restarted. Yeah... it didn't work out for the best, lol. Luckily, I only bought the core book in 5th after buying pretty much everything back in 3rd and all the main splat books for each archtype last edition and just barely managing to sell off most before they were invalidated.

**warboss**

So I hadn't heard anything about this since Gencon and decided to do some quick searches in order to get an update. Apparently the PDF has been available for about a month and the hardcopy will maybe hit store shelves after a delay in October.

https://www.shadowrunsixthworld.com/2019/08/shadowrun-sixth-world-pdf-and-pre-order-are-here/

Um... is this going to hit the gaming market with a soggy muted *fwwap* like the 40k RPG did? The few reviews I found are not just mixed but quite polarized.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/286850/Shadowrun-Sixth-World-Core-Rulebook

Has anyone here on dakka had any experience with the new edition? (whether just buying/read or actual play?)

Listening to this now as it's one of the few reviews posted. It doesn't sound promising....

**warboss**

I can't speak from personal experience but, judging from others have claimed, it sounds like the perfect storm combination of all of the following:

1) Traditional Catalyst Games gakky editing and product management
2) Rush to get it out before the new Cyberpunk tabletop RPG (and accompanying video game likely to bring new interest into the stale genre)
3) Right hand not knowing what the left is doing (see #1)
4) Wanting to have their cake (not piss off existing crunch loving customers) and eat it too (claiming that they've overhauled/simplified the system to attract new customers).

There are several examples in the youtube video I linked where it sounds like (conjecture obviously) one person didn't get the memo to simplify and didn't whereas others did resulting in an inconsistent mix of mechanics that should be similar... and the long standing gakky editing not catching it or caring enough to fix it if they did. e.g There is a rule that has a lengthy introduction and explanation that sounds both cool and like it should be important but has only a single edge case use that feels like the editor realized too late that none of the other freelance writers were actually using the rule someone wrote so he or she threw it in himself into a section. It's not promising. :(

**warboss**

Albertorius wrote:
John Prins wrote:
Good lord, I can't even...how do you bungle something going to print that badly?

Mostly by wanting to make a quick buck out of the Gen Con goers, really. They made a fast first print and sold it at the con. Supposedly the retail print would have that fixed... but honestly, it doesn't even begin to fix it. And well, they said the same about the second printing of 5th edition and they reprinted the same version, so...

Yeah, the fixes people hoped that were coming in the aftermath of the release of 5th edition never came so yeah... it's probably not a good idea to think that this edition will improve for free until the release of a for profit new edition or "anniversary" redo.

**warboss**

So apparently official Shadowrun miniatures are a thing now and I just found out about it. I'd have loved something like this over a decade ago not so much now. In a world where you have home 3d printing and heroforge for completely custom minis and boutique scifi lines like Infinity for the truly professionally sculpted/cast showpiece figs, I'm not sure there is a big market for random scifi girl with big foam pizza platter effects (for magic or hacking effects?). Still, if anyone needs a troll with a mini-chaingun...

https://www.amazon.com/Shadowrun-RPG-Prime-Runner-Miniatures/dp/B07SNGYTTS

**warboss**

Voss wrote:
Now? Shadowrun minis were a thing decades ago. Ral Partha did the original line, and it was picked up by Iron Wind.

Yup, I know..

Spoiler:

and I even owned some of them (the 2nd edition blue box set). I sold them off long ago though but I did keep the giant scale troll fig.

Regardless, I'd consider a gap of about 30 years for small scale figs to be sufficient to allow surprise at the return of official minis. YMMV.

**warboss**

Against my own better judgement and the advice of pretty much everyone I've asked, I've decided to try and start a local (but pandemic-virtual for now) cyberpunk RPG game. I'll be trying out the Anarchy rules first and the Cyberpunk Jumpstart ones next if we don't like the first. None of us has any experience with a narrative style game so I'll be using a more hybrid traditional approach with Anarchy. Regardless, I had some free time over the weekend so decided to rebase/repaint/convert some clix including one for my Troll "personal assistant" character (think 50% face/50% bodyguard although he looks more like a corp troll!). The other one I suppose can be used for a mystic adept but it was initially intended as a Starfinder Solarian when I purchased it. They're not great paint jobs by any means but they're tabletop ready and done in a single weekend so I'm happy enough with the results (or at least the ease in obtaining them).

**warboss**

Thanks! I was already aware of the blog they link to (https://www.surprisethreat.com/) as it was the only real resource I found for the system. I already had some ideas about adding in a lifestyle cost option for players that grants the occasional social modifier so it's good to see I'm not the only one since it was brought up there. I'm a rpg mechanic-tweaker by nature but I have to admit that I'm pretty much changing a fair amount for a rules-light system even before I've played my first game as I don't feel that it has enough shadowruny flavor (not complexity but rather the flavor of the traditional rules) nor is it competently produced to the point that nothing is necessary to just work. I wasn't aware of the other reddit threads as I tend to stay away from that site as much as possible but I'll check them out today as well.

As for the overall seemingly negative opinions of much (or possibly most) of the respondents, it definitely jives with my own impressions (both personally of the RPG currently and my reading of the community's attitude). I don't think Anarchy or especially 6e have gone over well and it's mostly for similar reasons indicating an unwillingness to learn on the part of the company and a disregard for their customers. That sucks though for the people that are ok or genuinely like the recent (i.e. past decade) worth of changes/products.

**warboss**

I have no idea if it's true but supposedly the German versions of the core rules for a couple of editions are much more than a simple translation and instead fixes rules deemed problematic. I too like the old fluff for shadowrun but haven't kept up with it enough in recent years (or even decades?... since Dunkelzahn was freshly dead and Chicago was about to be fumigated).

At this point, I can't see the IP doing well without a complete ground up refresh of not just the rules but also the background. Personally, I think they should go completely with an 80's retrofuture dystopia vibe and not try to be as ground breaking now as they were in 1989. YMMV.

**warboss**

Cyberpunk has evolved but I don't believe Shadowrun has kept up with the genre. That said... I don't think it has to. Unfortunately just dipping the something's toes into the post Gibsonian/Blade Runner aspects is the worst possible choice. Either stick with the original feel with some obvious alterations both for quality of player/GM life and real world advancements (like adding the abstracted wireless matrix mentioned above instead of circuit diagram graph paper wired matrix) or go full on reboot on the rules, concepts, and setting. Trying to straddle a middle ground gets us the sequentially less popular editions that even nostalgia can't save. Ymmv.

**warboss**

So apparently this was a thing inside the Catalyst offices... SR5E Brony edition.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303655502380?fbclid=IwAR2gm7Qawbs30_QO3p9iomS3C8yB9pBUjWZtL3mXKFiN2cILc2FDlZkCLIs

**warboss**

So this was posted over on the Shadowrun forums (and likely elsewhere)...

Someone tried to do a poll regarding the customer base's feelings regarding 6e and the results weren't particularly positive. Obviously YMMV regarding the opinions expressed but only 79 people responded which in and of itself might be indicative of general apathy.

https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=31801.0

Spoiler:

The questions for this survey are as follows:

Single-select Questions

For these, the confidence range is 95%. I used this site to calculate the intervals. Use This one if you run into trouble.

What sent you to this survey?

* 44/79 (55.7%) of respondents came from /r/Shadowrun
* 17/79 (21.5%) of respondents came from Dumpshock
* 17/79 (21.5%) of respondents came from Official Forums
* 1/79 (1.3%) put down "ZeeMastermind" in the "Other." *I'm assuming they came from reddit, since I use other usernames on the official forums and Dumpshock (Middle School me thinks "ZeeMastermind" is a better username than I do). This is not me, I did not fill out the survey. I simply made this a "Other" question when it really shouldn't have been*

Have you bought a Shadowrun CRB before the release of 6e?

* 73/79 (92.4%, +/- 5.8%) "Yes"
* 1/79 (1.3%, +/- 2.5%) "No"
* 5/79 (6.3%, +/- 5.4%) "I pirated a CRB (Only select if you HAVE NEVER bought a CRB)"

Have you played Shadowrun before the release of 6e?

* 78/79 (98.7%, +/- 2.5%) "Yes"
* 1/79 (1.3%, +/- 2.5%) "No"

Did you buy the 6e Core Rulebook (6e)?

* 36/79 (45.6%, +/- 11%) "Yes"
* 22/79 (27.8%, +/- 9.9%) "No"
* 21/79 (26.6%, +/- 9.7%) "I pirated it (Only select if you DID NOT buy 6e after pirating it)"

Do you like 6e?

* 8/77 (10.4%, +/- 6.8%) "Yes"
* 53/77 (68.8%, +/- 10.3%) "No"
* 16.77 (20.8%, +/- 9.1%) "It's complicated"

Here is the breakdown of the first few questions by source:

Dumpshock
* 100% have bought a Shadowrun CRB before the release of 6e
* 0% have pirated and never bought a Shadowrun CRB before the release of 6e
* 100% have played Shadowrun before the release of 6e
* 23.53% pirated and never bought the 6e CRB
* 17.65% bought the 6e CRB
* 5.88% liked 6e
* 0% said "it's complicated" about liking 6e
* 17 total respondents

Official Forums
* 100% have bought a Shadowrun CRB before the release of 6e
* 0% have pirated and never bought a CRB before the release of 6e
* 100% have played Shadowrun before the release of 6e
* 76.47% bought the 6e CRB
* 17.65% pirated and never bought the 6e CRB
* 17.65% liked 6e
* 35.29% said "it's complicated" about liking 6e
* 17 total respondents

/r/Shadowrun
* 86.36% have bought a Shadowrun CRB before the release of 6e
* 11.36% have pirated and never bought a CRB before the release of 6e
* 97.73% have played Shadowrun before the release of 6e
* 43.18% bought the 6e CRB
* 31.82% pirated and never bought the 6e CRB
* 9.09% liked 6e
* 22.73% said "it's complicated" about liking 6e
* 44 total respondents

bizarro-ZeeMastermind
* 100% have bought a Shadowrun CRB before the release of 6e
* 0% have pirated and never bought a CRB before the release of 6e
* 100% have played Shadowrun before the release of 6e
* 100% bought the 6e CRB
* 0% pirated and never bought the 6e CRB
* 0% liked 6e
* 0% said "it's complicated" about liking 6e
* 1 total respondent

Multi-select Questions

I do not provide confidence ranges for these questions. Feel free to calculate it.

What do you like about 6e/why do you play 6e?

For this question, the percentage based on the number of people who answered the question is on the left. The percentage based on the total number of respondents is on the right.

* 44/53 (83%) OR 44/79 (55.7%) "I like the setting"
* 8/53 (15.1%) OR 8/79 (10.1%) "I like the mechanics"
* 7/53 (13.2%) OR 7/79 (8.9%) "I like the mechanics (Magic)"
* 10/53 (18.9%) OR 10/79 (12.7%) "I like the mechanics (Combat)"
* 14/53 (26.4%) OR 14/79 (17.7%) "I like the mechanics (Matrix)"
* 16/53 (30.2%) OR 16/79 (20.3%) "I like the mechanics (Skills)"
* 8/53 (15.1%) OR 8/79 (10.1%) "I like the mechanics (Character Creation)"
* 17/53 (32.1%) OR 17/79 (21.5%) "I like the mechanics (Core dice pool mechanics)"
* 7/53 (13.2%) OR 7/79 (8.9%) "I like the mechanics (Edge)"
* 3/53 (5.7%) OR 3/79 (3.8%) "I like Catalyst Game Labs"
* 9/53 (17%) OR 9/79 (11.4%) "I like the CRB Fiction"
* 6/53 (11.3%) OR 6/79 (7.6%) "My group plays 6e"
* 0/53 (0%) OR 0/79 (0%) "Word-of-mouth"
* 1/53 (1.9%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Price"
* 1/53 (1.9%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Editing Quality (Spelling, grammar, active voice, etc.)"
* 5/53 (9.4%) OR 5/79 (6.3%) "Easy to Learn"
* 1/53 (1.9%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Rules are Clear"
* 1/53 (1.9%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Style/Syntax (Word choice, tone, sentence flow, etc.)"
* 23/53 (43.4%) OR 23/79 (29.1%) "Theme/genre"
* 1/53 (1.9%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: I don't play it"
* 1/53 (1.9%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: The dapper shark meme: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/367180742595313664/618362220765642763/5qzthwxfh6k31.png (1), https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/365227581018079235/689905930682237004/9d198e5c57f6cc2853b70afe7a729849.png (2)"
* 1/53 (1.9%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: The prospect of a less convoluted version of 5th Edition sounded nice..."
* 1/53 (1.9%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: Previous player, wanted to try current rule set"
* 1/53 (1.9%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: Treating drugs like toxins for unified rules! Yay!"
* 1/53 (1.9%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: to be clear, I *don't* like what has been done with the setting since 6e, but I am broadly fine with most aspects of it before 6e, with the notable exception that I think forcing black ops cyberware to be constantly broadcasting an obvious signal is incredibly stupid, and that if you're going to go the extra mile to support matrix PCs who absolutely refuse to act outside the matrix (not that I consider that a worthy goal), it should be done by providing them options in the environment if and where it makes sense, not by having the entire planet decide that wired reflexes which formerly worked just fine without a matrix connection spontaneously don't function without it."

What don't you like about 6e/why don't you play 6e?

For this question, the percentage based on the number of people who answered the question is on the left. The percentage based on the total number of respondents is on the right.

* 9/76(11.8%) OR 9/79 (11.4%) "I dislike the setting"
* 46/76 (60.5%) OR 46/79 (58.2%) "I dislike the mechanics"
* 29/76 (38.2%) OR 29/79 (36.7%) "I dislike the mechanics (Magic)"
* 34/76 (44.7%) OR 34/79 (43%) "I dislike the mechanics (Combat)"
* 27/76 (35.5%) OR 27/79 (34.2%) "I dislike the mechanics (Matrix)"
* 19/76 (25%) OR 19/79 (24.1%) "I dislike the mechanics (Skills)"
* 35/76 (46.1%) OR 35/79 (44.3%) "I dislike the mechanics (Character Creation)"
* 16/76 (21.1%) OR 16/79 (20.3%) "I dislike the mechanics (Core dice pool mechanics)"
* 48/76 (63.2%) OR 48/79 (60.8%) "I dislike the mechanics (Edge)"
* 40/76 (52.6%) OR 40/79 (50.6%) "I dislike Catalyst Game Labs"
* 16/76 (21.1%) OR 16/79 (20.3%) "I dislike the CRB Fiction"
* 6/76 (7.9%) OR 6/79 (7.6%) "I do not want to learn a new edition"
* 31/76 (40.8%) OR 31/79 (39.2%) "My group plays a different edition"
* 15/76 (19.7%) OR 15/79 (19%) "Word-of-mouth"
* 11/76 (14.5%) OR 11/79 (13.9%) "Price"
* 58/76 (76.3%) OR 58/79 (73.4%) "Editing Quality (Spelling, grammar, active voice, etc.)"
* 17/76 (22.4%) OR 17/79 (21.5%) "Not easy to Learn"
* 45/76 (59.2%) OR 45/79 (57%) "Rules are not Clear"
* 31/76 (40.8%) OR 31/79 (39.2%) "Style/Syntax (Word choice, tone, sentence flow, etc.)"
* 3/76 (3.9%) OR 3/79 (3.8%) "Theme/genre"
* 1/76 (1.3%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: The writers broke coherence between fiction and mechanics."
* 1/76 (1.3%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: The mechanics make no sense, they do not reflect real world gun fights nor combat in any form. They are useless at everything they try do combat-wise."
* 1/76 (1.3%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: Doubling Down on gak nobody liked in the previous Editions. Some games arnt ment to be simplified. Also lookin at you Todd Howard"
* 1/76 (1.3%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: Playing Pathfinder"
* 1/76 (1.3%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: Oversimplification"
* 1/76 (1.3%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: urning Seattle into Hong Kong because the HK people left is weaksauce. The whole Fiat-EMP plot is horrible and the missing SuperSoldiers from Hell are not better either. It's peak MagicRun."
* 1/76 (1.3%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: disliking matrix rules was a bit broad. I like the idea of technomancers. I don't like the current existing rules for them. I also don't like what has been done with the setting since 6e started in terms of plot."
* 1/76 (1.3%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: The nerfing of cyberware/bioware that started in 5th edtion. I do not know why you had to make decking so stupidly expensive and making Street Sams all but unplayable."
* 1/76 (1.3%) OR 1/79 (1.3%) "Other: Low Production Quality"

Which of the following have you gone to for information on new games in the past year?

* 64/77 (83.1%) "reddit[.]com/r/shadowrun"
* 25/77 (32.5%) "reddit[.]com/r/rpg"
* 16/77 (20.8%) "Another reddit sub"
* 47/77 (61%) "Official Shadowrun Forums"
* 31/77 (40.3%) "Dumpshock Forums"
* 15/77 (19.5%) "RPG.net"
* 12/77 (15.6%) "Another forum"
* 39/77 (50.6%) "Drive-Thru RPG"
* 33/77 (42.9%) "Drive-Thru RPG Reviews"
* 13/77 (16.9%) "Another website"
* 17/77 (22.1%) "Local Game Store (FLGS)"
* 8/77 (10.4%) "SCN Discord (Shadowrun Community Network, previously Shadowcasters Network)"
* 22/77 (28.6%) "Another Discord Server"
* 2/77 (2.6%) "CGL Mailing List"
* 3/77 (3.9%) "ShadowRN Mailing List"
* 2/77 (2.6%) "Other Mailing List"
* 9/77 (11.7%) "Official CGL Website"
* 13/77 (16.9%) "Official Shadowrun Website"
* 1/77 (1.3%) "Other: srg"
* 1/77 (1.3%) "Other: 4chan"
* 1/77 (1.3%) "Other: Shadowrunners' Union Facebook group"
* 1/77 (1.3%) "Other: TheRPGsite, RPGpub"

**warboss**

Albertorius wrote:I mean... the results don't really surprise me much ^^

Same here. He reran the survey in response to some of the more reasonable criticism he received with the first round and it didn't fair well for 6e yet again.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1l_gVMQxWGbiaV_pGIFp3Y6NgDoiXOyEjiTlcSIb2kg4/edit#slide=id.g5361c52c6d_3_35

Easy E wrote:I still just play 3E. I updated a few bits for wi-fi but the rest works fine for me.

Well, fwiw, it's got the highest like/dislike ratio so you're not the only one in the shadowrun community who likes it.